What would you say if you could ?

[CrazyOldMan]

I don't know what any of this means, but I believe, in principle, we agree.

It means I think a class action lawsuit is a bad idea and a waste of time

 

[Bayford]

Let’s get this in perspective
The marketing committed to all,of us that the workshop manuals would be available to all owners, it was a clear commitment which many of us bought into on the understanding we would be able to perform our own servicing and repairs.
Right now we are in a honeymoon period with little going significantly wrong.
In 4-5 years time, once our warranties have expired, it’s a different story.
We all know the dealers have access yet we do not despite a lot of marketing material stating we would? Is no one else feeling like we’ve been ripped off?

I don't feel ripped off because warts and all I can't think of another vehicle available in the UK that I would swap my Grenadier for.

 

[TCMColorado]

Directly addressing the question that is the title of this thread, I would say social media and the general cultural climate has given us the completely false impression that we should be heard for every little complaint we have about the Grenadier or frankly any other object, policy, process or service in our daily lives. For the most part we all knew what we were getting when buying the vehicle. We are not entitled after the fact to bitch about or ask for every bloody thing unless it is a reliability/durability problem or safety issue. Sure customers provide valuable feedback for product improvement but that is generally a one way street that informs product updates potentially years down the road. Based on the tone of this thread one could get the impression that Ineos corporate should have an on going two way dialog with every customer for the most petty of concerns. This is completely unrealistic and child like. Okay, stepping down from my soap box now.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

Directly addressing the question that is the title of this thread, I would say social media and the general cultural climate has given us the completely false impression that we should be heard for every little complaint we have about the Grenadier or frankly any other object, policy, process or service in our daily lives. For the most part we all knew what we were getting when buying the vehicle. We are not entitled after the fact to bitch about or ask for every bloody thing unless it is a reliability/durability problem or safety issue. Sure customers provide valuable feedback for product improvement but that is generally a one way street that informs product updates potentially years down the road. Based on the tone of this thread one could get the impression that Ineos corporate should have an on going two way dialog with every customer for the most petty of concerns. This is completely unrealistic and child like. Okay, stepping down from my soap box now.

I couldn’t disagree more.
In the modern marketplace, those that respond and develop thrive, those that don’t, languish.

I just want them to honor their word about the repair manual. Spares will come later.
I don’t want any lawyer-speak around that.

I will let the marketplace determine which viewpoint turns out to be the accurate one.

 

[TCMColorado]

Got to love the modern world. Everyone has a megaphone and thinks they are justified in using it always. So far that has not exactly made life better.

As for everyone who keeps on about the bloody repair manual, just sell your Grenadier. Buy a vehicle for which you have access to the desired documentation. News, flash at the consumer level few modern vehicles offer access to factory services manuals for anything less than completely exorbitant on going fees. And that is for digital not print. I bought a new 2003 Jeep Wrangler back in the day and the dealer sold me a printed factory manual for something like $125. It was 3 inches thick and I used it extensively. This no longer exists for any new vehicle. Get over it or buy an old rig for which such documentation does exist. Would I like to have the service docs for my Grenadier, absolutely. But I knew going in that it was not available and may never be. The whine from the peanut gallery is getting old.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

Got to love the modern world. Everyone has a megaphone and thinks they are justified in using it always. So far that has not exactly made life better.

As for everyone who keeps on about the bloody repair manual, just sell your Grenadier. Buy a vehicle for which you have access to the desired documentation. News, flash at the consumer level few modern vehicles offer access to factory services manuals for anything less than completely exorbitant on going fees. And that is for digital not print. I bought a new 2003 Jeep Wrangler back in the day and the dealer sold me a printed factory manual for something like $125. It was 3 inches thick and I used it extensively. This no longer exists for any new vehicle. Get over it or buy an old rig for which such documentation does exist. Would I like to have the service docs for my Grenadier, absolutely. But I knew going in that it was not available and may never be. The whine from the peanut gallery is getting old.

Understand that I work in factory automation for the big 3.
Look at how the auto industry has evolved over the last 20 years.
What do the companies that thrive do?
The digital world commands many different things from manufacturers.
I have made a concerted effort for 5 years to only focus on real deliverables.

For those that live near a dealer, it probably isn’t a problem.
For those that don’t it is a real problem.

Don’t disrespect their reality.

 

[TCMColorado]

No one is disrespecting their reality. It is not a secret that service manuals are not available. If someone chooses to buy a vehicle on the assumption that something they need is not available but might be in the future then that choice is on them. If the dealer is at a great distance, again that choice is on the buyer not Ineos. Manufacturers across multiple industries are always taking about future feature sets. Some time they happen some time they don't. A prospective owner should buy things based on what a product is now not what it might be in the future. That said, Elon Musk has been promising fully autonomous Teslas for over a decade. Yet they are not autonomous and might not be for another decade. None the less people continue to buy Teslas and are happy to wait for that magial day when lord Elon makes it all real.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

On one is disrespecting their reality. It is not a secret that service manuals are not available. If someone chooses to buy a vehicle on the assumption that something they need is not available but might be in the future then that choice is on them. If the dealer is at a great distance, again that choice is on the buyer not Ineos. Manufacturers across multiple industries are always taking about future feature sets. Some time they happen some time they don't. A prospective owner should buy things based on what a product is now not what it might be in the future. That said, Elon Musk has been promising fully autonomous Teslas for over a decade. Yet they are not autonomous and might not be for another decade. None the less people continue to buy Teslas and are happy to wait for that magial day when lord Elon makes it all real.

8-10k US orderers had to decide sight unseen months before anything close to a production vehicle arrived on these shores.
They were then assigned to a dealer on Sept 1
So your premise is inaccurate.
Nothing personal.

Some of us reserved our unit in August 2019.Several weeks before they were made available for reservation in the United States.
I still believe that it is a corporate problem stemming from the North American dealers association rather than any sort of technical problem, that prevents the company from releasing some sort of a repair manual. From my end it doesn’t even have to be very good, it’s a matter of principle.

 

[bigleonski]

8-10k US orderers had to decide sight unseen months before anything close to a production vehicle arrived on these shores.
They were then assigned to a dealer on Sept 1
So your premise is inaccurate.
Nothing personal.

Some of us reserved our unit in August 2019.Several weeks before they were made available for reservation in the United States.
I still believe that it is a corporate problem stemming from the North American dealers association rather than any sort of technical problem, that prevents the company from releasing some sort of a repair manual. From my end it doesn’t even have to be very good, it’s a matter of principle.

I tend to agree.
I have no doubt that Ineos want to release manuals - it was a core commitment, or at the very least a foundation marketing tool.
And then the lawyers and the practicality of operating in multiple world markets got in the way.
And so here we are.
No point complaining about it. It'll happen eventually, or it won't. And as consumers, I doubt we can do anything about that, except accept it or sell the vehicle and move on.

 

[255/85]

No one had a gun to their head when they purchased their Grenadier but that doesn't mean they shouldn't attempt to hold Ineos to its word though the effort may be futile.

 

[holdmybeer]

A prospective owner should buy things based on what a product is now not what it might be in the future.

Bah. A world without early adopters, willing to support great projects based on promises and faith is a boring world. There was no "what the product is now" when many of us placed pre-orders in 2021. The "now" of 2021 included repairability, maintainability, and modifability. Resources.

I love my truck. Never plan to sell it. A few details suck. And Ineos has failed to follow through on some things. The deficiencies are small but still worth talking about. Otherwise this forum is just a circlejerk echo chamber. Dissent is good. The truck is worth honest talk.