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3rd party Videos Video from AllOffroad 4x4 Adventures TV to start at 9:00 AM

[QUOTE username=Igfan userid=8882394 postid=1332979403]looks like Paachi did at one of the prototype tours in the USA.

[/QUOTE]

This is great - thanks!

Looks like I read that post a while back but forgot about it. I guess I am having difficulty believing those low points really are 10 inches off the ground!
 
One can make a fair estimation of the skid plate ground clearance from the photo above?

The tyres on the prototype I rode in were KO2s   265/70/17 which look very similar to those in the photo

265/70/17 tyres are 31.6" in diameter, which is near enough to 14.5" from ground to axle centreline (given the "slump" when the tyre is loaded with vehicle weight and say 0.8" of the 7.3" sidewall height inside the rim as the bead height. So, 6"of exposed tyre and 8.5 " of rim.
In the photo, the bottom edge of the skid plate appears to be about 1/2 way above the lowest edge of the rim say 4". so 6"+ 4"  there's 10"   ...that's "near as damn it!" to paraphrase an old boss of mine!
 
As far as I understand, the IG is the modern successor to the original Land Rover Defender which it so far appears to be.
Since when did a factory LRD ever manage technical off roading of such extreme variety and tick all the boxes that Stefan mentions are required for a real off roader?.
I don't think the IG was envisaged with the extreme off roading requirements discussed straight from the factory, but more of an capable off road car for everyday use.

That's not to say 3rd parties wont be able to make it adaptable.
 
"Driven by hunger, a fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to, although he leaped with all his strength. As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet! I don't need any sour grapes.' "

A fable from Aesop.

When people cannot attain things they badly want, they often speak disparagingly about it.
 
[QUOTE username=Chocki userid=8960739 postid=1332981099]As far as I understand, the IG is the modern successor to the original Land Rover Defender which it so far appears to be.
Since when did a factory LRD ever manage technical off roading of such extreme variety and tick all the boxes that Stefan mentions are required for a real off roader?.
I don't think the IG was envisaged with the extreme off roading requirements discussed straight from the factory, but more of an capable off road car for everyday use.

That's not to say 3rd parties wont be able to make it adaptable.[/QUOTE]

If Ineos didn't outwardly say they're targeting "extremists" I'd agree with your point. However since they do, I judge it as such. 
 
[QUOTE username=Ferrugenfish userid=9004165 postid=1333008323]

If Ineos didn't outwardly say they're targeting "extremists" I'd agree with your point. However since they do, I judge it as such. [/QUOTE]

I agree. In addition, I would add that the Grenadier does not compete against the 1997 Defender (the last year the Defender was sold in the United States), and so whatever the specs were on the old Defender (horsepower, torque, tire-size, breakover angle, etc.) - they aren't relevant in today's market. The capabilities of the old Defender are completely irrelevant to how people (at least in North America) will shop the Grenadier.

In North America, when the Grenadier hits the market in 2023, it will compete against contemporary vehicles like the Ford Bronco, Jeep Wrangler, Toyota 4Runner, Toyota Sequoia, LR Defender, LR4, Mercedes G-Wagon, etc. Buyers will judge its power, build, and capabilities against these 2023 vehicles - not against the mythic Defender of years past.
 
Here is a video from a trail pretty close to where I live - it is the guys from TFL comparing a Wrangler on 33-inch tires, a Bronco on 35s (from the factory), and a new Defender. This trail is not remarkable in any way - and it is not considered "extreme". On the contrary, it is typical of the trails that people drive all over the Western United States. There are trails like this all over, and in this way - I think off-roading in the U.S. is really different than in the U.K. and many countries of Western Europe. If you are interested, pay particular attention to their discussion of tire size and the difference that a 35-inch tire makes for travel on these trails. Correspondingly, the American market for 4x4s is quite different than the European one, with huge numbers of people driving what I think many in Europe would consider "extreme" rigs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=391AsASvmi8
 
@Ferrugenfish

> ... targeting "extremists" ... However since they do

Do they?
 
[QUOTE username=emax userid=8900646 postid=1333009541]@Ferrugenfish

> ... targeting "extremists" ... However since they do

Do they? [/QUOTE]

I think they do. At 1:53 in the video below you can listen to a representative from Ineos stating that the fourth group they are targeting are "really hardcore enthusiasts".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKP0ONuqCQc
 
[QUOTE username=emax userid=8900646 postid=1333009541]@Ferrugenfish

> ... targeting "extremists" ... However since they do

Do they? [/QUOTE]

Also between 3:14 and 6:40, in the "Target Market for Ineos Grenadier" section of the video.  He described their target and "who will buy these", one of the groups being "enthusiasts". It's not the word "extremist", but it's basically the same thing. 

At 24:45 he refers to "extremists" who apply "jewelry" to their rigs, which is why I think they should have, for example, longer control arms and an optional lower final drive ratio... cause you can't just put big "jewelry" sized tires on the Grenadier without basically changing out the whole suspension... you just can't say you've built for enthusiasts if an enthusiast has to change most of the suspension to be on par with.... enthusiasts. But of course the vehicle will serve many people very well... it's just a stretch for "enthusiast" or "extremists". If it were for them, they wouldn't have to go to extreme measures (changes) to do extreme things. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YPtEk6b3O8&t=3s
 
These messages I think are both directed towards Australian audiences, where conditions and regulations combine to make anything larger than 35s rare (different sort of enthusiast).  Earlier discussion has focussed more on US-style rock-crawling however the other US segment which perhaps plays a bit better in Oz is those vehicles descended from Baja/desert racing.  Different but also distinct suspension setups in that world that'd be fun to have a play with but heavy platforms like this one are perhaps not the best starting point.  Regardless I look forward to seeing what we collectively get up to once we get our hands on the vehicles!
 
[QUOTE username=stickshifter userid=8617054 postid=1333008934]Here is a video from a trail pretty close to where I live - it is the guys from TFL comparing a Wrangler on 33-inch tires, a Bronco on 35s (from the factory), and a new Defender. This trail is not remarkable in any way - and it is not considered "extreme". On the contrary, it is typical of the trails that people drive all over the Western United States. There are trails like this all over, and in this way - I think off-roading in the U.S. is really different than in the U.K. and many countries of Western Europe. If you are interested, pay particular attention to their discussion of tire size and the difference that a 35-inch tire makes for travel on these trails. Correspondingly, the American market for 4x4s is quite different than the European one, with huge numbers of people driving what I think many in Europe would consider "extreme" rigs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=391AsASvmi8 [/QUOTE]

I think the conversation is becoming counter productive.  We have descended into semantics.  I do want to comment about the TFL video that was posted.  As someone who owns and wheels the New Defender there were some very serious mistakes done by TFL when driving the new defender.  First TFL was told not to air down the tires that the new defender was design(ie the traction controls)to preform with tires fully inflated.   Second they decided to not wait and recieve a version with 18 inch rims.  Many of us have  done a wheel conversion to 18 inches to increase sidewall.  Finally, TFL forgot that they did a previous video with Steve Burt who owns a LR dealership and wheels many different offroad vehicles.   In that video on the same trail, Steve took a L663 with 33 on 18 with no issues.    One last thing, most people have no problem stacking rocks to get over obstacles that 35 might rollover.   I'm done with my rant.   
 
[QUOTE username=Jonathon & Hannah  globalgregors userid=8986856 postid=1333010695]  Regardless I look forward to seeing what we collectively get up to once we get our hands on the vehicles![/QUOTE]

Really looking forward to it... in much anticipation of everyone (except us) getting one hehe
 
[QUOTE username=emax userid=8900646 postid=1333007666]"Driven by hunger, a fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to, although he leaped with all his strength. As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet! I don't need any sour grapes.' "

A fable from Aesop.

When people cannot attain things they badly want, they often speak disparagingly about it.[/QUOTE]
How true, how true. 
It has been apparent for a while that some people have taken the old "she won't go out with me .....she must be gay"  approach to the Grenadier.  
 
[QUOTE username=DaveB userid=8923052 postid=1333010897]
How true, how true. 
It has been apparent for a while that some people have taken the old "she won't go out with me .....she must be gay"  approach to the Grenadier.  [/QUOTE]

????   
 
[QUOTE username=Ferrugenfish userid=9004165 postid=1333010058]

Also between 3:14 and 6:40, in the "Target Market for Ineos Grenadier" section of the video.  He described their target and "who will buy these", one of the groups being "enthusiasts". It's not the word "extremist", but it's basically the same thing. [/QUOTE]

I would also describe myself as an enthusiast - but not as an extremist.

However, I am European, so my ideas about it may be different. ?
 
[QUOTE username=emax userid=8900646 postid=1333011418]

I would also describe myself as an enthusiast - but not as an extremist.

However, I am European, so my ideas about it may be different. ?[/QUOTE]

I've met many "Europeans"....  we even have some in our extended family ?

Some are   "enthusiastic in the extreme" (after a few beers) (Dutch)???,  others are by nature  "extreme enthusiasts" (a few more beers)??? (Austrian ...avid skiers),  and then there are those who are naturally optimistic and whom I would describe as "extremely enthusiastic" (after MANY beers) (Brits/Scots) ! ?????...but they probably no longer count as European!!!?
 
Stefan is a you tube content provider that generates significant income for himself, his content is very much personal biased and designed  to be more  click bait biased  to increase his hits on You tube.  You only need to view how many videos he has on the IG saying the same thing.

You will get a less biased review from Andrew sempier white.  he gives a good review of the good and not so good. but makes sure that it is only his opinion for his needs,
 
[QUOTE username=Andy userid=9043617 postid=1333104672]Stefan is a you tube content provider that generates significant income for himself, his content is very much personal biased and designed  to be more  click bait biased  to increase his hits on You tube.  You only need to view how many videos he has on the IG saying the same thing.

You will get a less biased review from Andrew sempier white.  he gives a good review of the good and not so good. but makes sure that it is only his opinion for his needs,[/QUOTE]

He gets income because he makes great points due to his vast experience. 
 
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