Sold after 11 months of ownership. My final post and final thoughts.

[Zimm]

Why shouldn’t have a testicuzzi? The sell was it is supposed to be limited electronics so it doesn’t get crippled, and in reality it has the same electric nanny’s as every other rig. Fine, so the solid state switches are fake and it’s all just a couple PCB’s like every other car, well, in return for todays reality, how about the electronics that don’t actually cripple anything, like a heated steering wheel, adjustable seats, and a garage door opener?

This rig isn’t any more durable or reliable than a Gwagon or a defender, but it has a cheap interior short on functions, for which after living with it, ida happily tossed 5 more grand into the pot. I bet there would be more units moving off the lots too. Take away the lockers and thus the offroadability, and I can’t think of a worse buy at 75g. Looking cool only last so long.

 

[Jackattack13]

Why shouldn’t have a testicuzzi? The sell was it is supposed to be limited electronics so it doesn’t get crippled, and in reality it has the same electric nanny’s as every other rig. Fine, so the solid state switches are fake and it’s all just a couple PCB’s like every other car, well, in return for todays reality, how about the electronics that don’t actually cripple anything, like a heated steering wheel, adjustable seats, and a garage door opener?

This rig isn’t any more durable or reliable than a Gwagon or a defender, but it has a cheap interior short on functions, for which after living with it, ida happily tossed 5 more grand into the pot. I bet there would be more units moving off the lots too. Take away the lockers and thus the offroadability, and I can’t think of a worse buy at 75g. Looking cool only last so long.

You make a great point. I bought into this pipe dream of a minimal electrics, bare bones, only what you need vehicle designed for remote, rugged, and austere conditions. Ready for any adventure. What we got was a vehicle full of electrical nannies, systems controlled by poor programming, and alarms, faults, and warnings for everything. I am one of the unfortunate ones to have a wild amount of electrical gremlins, so much so that I cannot trust any of the faults that appear now. Even one for "Low Oil Level" that recently appeared, which I could not verify to be accurate or not because we don't have a manual dip stick and have to put full trust into a sensor, once again controlled by a computer and/or modules.

Like you said, at this point, give us the power seats, the heated steering wheel, dual climate control, vanity mirrors, and a lock control button on the passenger side. I will gladly disagree on the looks. They absolutely stunning vehicles! LOL

 

[ryket]

As a software engineer, one of the most baffling decisions made was to release without any way for customers to update software (OTA or otherwise) especially given the state of the dealer network. Again, this is another solved problem in the automotive world.

For me, lack of OTA is a feature not a bug. I don't want my car connected to the internet.

In any case I wouldn't trust the muppets that wrote the Grenadier's software to implement an OTA update system.

It would be nice if Ineos allowed us to update the firmware ourselves from a USB stick.

 

[terdrocket]

I had a 2020 Escalade ESV awd and my dad had a 2021, both with sticker prices the same as as my fully outfitted Grenadier. Heated steering, memory seats, homelink, remote start, etc. No center diff lock, no front and rear diff lock, no winch.
As for a cheap interior, I had all kinds of panels creak and rattles by 45k miles.
Give me the basic Gren interior and all the mechanical goodies any day over all that supposed luxury crap.

 

[Joefly78]

Why shouldn’t have a testicuzzi? The sell was it is supposed to be limited electronics so it doesn’t get crippled, and in reality it has the same electric nanny’s as every other rig. Fine, so the solid state switches are fake and it’s all just a couple PCB’s like every other car, well, in return for todays reality, how about the electronics that don’t actually cripple anything, like a heated steering wheel, adjustable seats, and a garage door opener?

This rig isn’t any more durable or reliable than a Gwagon or a defender, but it has a cheap interior short on functions, for which after living with it, ida happily tossed 5 more grand into the pot. I bet there would be more units moving off the lots too. Take away the lockers and thus the offroadability, and I can’t think of a worse buy at 75g. Looking cool only last so long.

Your second paragraph is spot on. I'm curious, what's the "no-brainer" price for this vehicle. For example, if you got a fairly loaded one (lockers, heated seats, safari windows, tow hitch) for say, $60k would that be enough to overlook the shortcomings you mention? Maybe they mainly have a pricing problem?

 

[ryket]

What we got was a vehicle full of electrical nannies, systems controlled by poor programming, and alarms, faults, and warnings for everything.

The good news is:

• this is a solvable problem
• Ineos knows it's a problem
• they HAVE to fix it to thrive in the US market

I just hope that they have hired some competent people to refactor the codebase and that's why it's taking so long.

If not, then maybe our friends in China will make a tool that allows us to disable the nanny features. Since China doesn't give a rat's ass about intellectual property, I'm pretty optimistic that this will happen.

We just have to wait.

By the way, if you think this is bad you should read up on Tesla's early years. Example (jargon warning - short version is that they were a mess). In comparison the Grenadier is a dream. It won't self-drive anyone into a wall, or send pictures of you back to the mothership, or any other number of insane things.

**edit** for a more recent example of a truly incompetent car company look up the Vinfast whistleblower story. Again, Ineos really isn't that bad for a startup.

 

[MileHigh]

Your second paragraph is spot on. I'm curious, what's the "no-brainer" price for this vehicle. For example, if you got a fairly loaded one (lockers, heated seats, safari windows, tow hitch) for say, $60k would that be enough to overlook the shortcomings you mention? Maybe they mainly have a pricing problem?

I think the problem for INEOS is that the price is too LOW. I’m amazed (and other people have told me the same) that people think that it is G-wagen levels of money, not Yukon levels of money. People dismiss it out of hand because they think it is not attainable.

Have you priced a Jeep lately? I’m not saying that they are the same price as the IG, but that when you factor in a better engine, better mechanicals, and frankly better engineering, and a much lower number out there, I can see why the price is where it is. Hell, the only engine I’d get with a Rubi is a 392- and those are $10k more than the IG. A RUbi- with out the trick sliding roof, the only compelling reason to buy a Jeep, are $74K.

If they started at $50k versus $75k, I don’t think that you’d sell many more.

Hell, I put more effort into marketing the IG than Ineos does.

 

[Joefly78]

I think the problem for INEOS is that the price is too LOW. I’m amazed (and other people have told me the same) that people think that it is G-wagen levels of money, not Yukon levels of money. People dismiss it out of hand because they think it is not attainable.

Have you priced a Jeep lately? I’m not saying that they are the same price as the IG, but that when you factor in a better engine, better mechanicals, and frankly better engineering, and a much lower number out there, I can see why the price is where it is. Hell, the only engine I’d get with a Rubi is a 392- and those are $10k more than the IG. A RUbi- with out the trick sliding roof, the only compelling reason to buy a Jeep, are $74K.

If they started at $50k versus $75k, I don’t think that you’d sell many more.

Hell, I put more effort into marketing the IG than Ineos does.

I see your point and hadn't considered that angle. And you're right that jeep prices are nuts. But they, too, aren't selling very well. I thought my '18 Rubicon for $53k was too much at the time (still do).

If I had to bet, IG will do what Land Rover did with the first generation Range Rover Sport (post Tata acquisition) and revamp the interior within the next two years. They do this, figure out solutions to the software bugs, I think they could easily raise the price and people will snap them up. Yeah, it'll make it more posh and less utilitarian, but am not sure how large their market is as the product stands. Our Atlanta dealer still has the same 100 or so on the lot they've had for months...if people realize they're attainable, it would stand to reason those would find homes.

 

[Tenac]

I think the problem for INEOS is that the price is too LOW. I’m amazed (and other people have told me the same) that people think that it is G-wagen levels of money, not Yukon levels of money. People dismiss it out of hand because they think it is not attainable.

Have you priced a Jeep lately? I’m not saying that they are the same price as the IG, but that when you factor in a better engine, better mechanicals, and frankly better engineering, and a much lower number out there, I can see why the price is where it is. Hell, the only engine I’d get with a Rubi is a 392- and those are $10k more than the IG. A RUbi- with out the trick sliding roof, the only compelling reason to buy a Jeep, are $74K.

If they started at $50k versus $75k, I don’t think that you’d sell many more.

Hell, I put more effort into marketing the IG than Ineos does.

No matter the price "overlooking problems" is not what a customer typically does in any form. No matter the price you will always see I paid XX for this it should be perfect ect. I think the unit is priced correctly, there is no way its G wagon money since 90% of why that price is high is do to the look at me trend of it. Yukons can go for well over 100k now as well, but that's a fancy supercharged V8 with extended room for soccer equipment. I think the IG really is in a league of its own, and the main draw to customers is not the price but rather its capabilities. Listen any of those G wagon pavement drivers would walk away from the IG the moment they turned a corner, and the Yukon soccer moms will say its too small. Enthusiast is the target here for this ride and it will always be niche market, with reasonable size sales.

 

[DaveB]

Sure, but the electronics that do exist could have been implemented far better. IMO its far less a case of 'computers == bad' and more like 'Ineos and their subcontractors did a poor job implementing the cars electronics overall'. It's frustrating to me because the electronics in the Grenadier are relatively rudimentary implementations of solved problems. It's not like Ineos is pushing the automotive frontier with them like LR does with it's electronic terrain response system, Porsche with its performance tuning, Tesla with autonomous driving, etc.

As a software engineer, one of the most baffling decisions made was to release without any way for customers to update software (OTA or otherwise) especially given the state of the dealer network. Again, this is another solved problem in the automotive world. I mean, you put out a v1.0 to the world and don't give yourself a way to fix critical issues quickly? The hubris. I also take some issue with the pace (ie lack therof) of said updates, but if they did subcontract out to the lowest bidder it tracks.

I don't like to give any corporation a pass when they drop the ball even a little. The software/electronic weirdness/quirkyness is overall a minor annoyance for me given the rudimentary feature set, but its enough of one to not just handwave away and imo deserves criticism.

Yeah the software all seems a bit strange.
My understanding is that they could have gone with BMW software but they were not allowed to make any changes.
They certainly wanted to make a lot of changes so it was out to the market for a new software provider, during COVID.
Neusoft Technologies sales rep probably just smiled, nodded and said.....yes, of course we can do that...........

 

[Tazzieman]

Yeah the software all seems a bit strange.

And yet , if you're not part of the misery loves company daisy chain, for the most part it does all you need it to.

 

[DaveB]

And yet , if you're not part of the misery loves company daisy chain, for the most part it does all you need it to.

Yeah....I don't have any problem with mine.
I think I have had 3 updates.

 

[Tazzieman]

Yeah....I don't have any problem with mine.
I think I have had 3 updates.

I've had just the one. And somehow everything's grouse

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I've had just the one. And somehow everything's grouse

My theory is that Aussie slang is just one big conspiracy- you guys randomly make stuff up and pretend to understand one another, just to mess with our heads.

 

[Tazzieman]

My theory is that Aussie slang is just one big conspiracy- you guys randomly make stuff up and pretend to understand one another, just to mess with our heads.

That's a bonza theory!

 

[CrazyOldMan]

That's a bonza theory!

And you’ve brainwashed my youngest daughter with Bluey and so she’s doing the exact same thing. Plus she started calling me “Toots” like a gangster from the 40’s. None of this is helping.

 

[Tazzieman]

And you’ve brainwashed my youngest daughter with Bluey and so she’s doing the exact same thing. Plus she started calling me “Toots” like a gangster from the 40’s. None of this is helping.

Strewth mate, My 4yo granddaughter points out people near caravans and says rather loudly "grey nomads!"

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Strewth mate, My 4yo granddaughter points out people near caravans and says rather loudly "grey nomads!"

One day the activation signal will go out and they will kill us in our sleep.

 

[bigleonski]

And you’ve brainwashed my youngest daughter with Bluey and so she’s doing the exact same thing. Plus she started calling me “Toots” like a gangster from the 40’s. None of this is helping.

I love all of the American parents complaining their kids are sprouting new words and talking in strange accents etc etc, like that hasn’t been happening to us in Australia since the 1960’s when we got the telly.

You poor darlings.

I also love it how Tazzie can crack a word out like Bonza and you guys still think that’s part of our current vocabulary.

Strewth, blimey and wowza that’s bonza diggeer.

I do love Bluey though, a much finer export than either the Wiggles or Steve Irwin I reckon.

Oh, and here’s one of our City Cats (dogs) dressed up as Bluey and Bingo running along the Brisbane River. We took my granddaughter on a Bluey ride last weekend.

 

[anand]

I also love it how Tazzie can crack a word out like Bonza and you guys still think that’s part of our current vocabulary.

Aussie vocab = Take any English word, delete the second half of it and add a y to the end.