Sick of waiting

[bemax]

Rosenbauer. But I´m afraid Magirus is facing the same problems. I´ve spoke to a comrade from a Berufsfeuerwehr in south germany. He told me magirus did not even submit an offer for a tender of 2 ladders.

Yes it is a problem which all truck builders for the fire departments have at the moment.
One big issue is that the chassis from MAN and Mercedes do not come in at time. Therefore the departments have to wait up to 30 months from the time of order. This is, in the time of high inflation, hard to handle for the manufacturer.
Now some of them try everything to get cash so they can finance workers and quite big storages of materials.

 

[Arlette]

Come on, where did you see them…?

Erchless Estate on Beauly to Cannich Road. In fact there were 20 in total. Given I have never seen one in the flesh - I had to give chase in our baby EV. As they say you wait for ages and then…….. Made my day.

 

[Ever Pragmatic]

Erchless Estate on Beauly to Cannich Road. In fact there were 20 in total. Given I have never seen one in the flesh - I had to give chase in our baby EV. As they say you wait for ages and then…….. Made my day.

Thanks for that. Twitter has a number of videos of the event and the Gren looks right at home, I’m hoping we get a few leaks about on road driving manners.

 

[DaveB]

Whatever happened to those lucky competition winners who were to go to some wilderness to pick up their vehicles? We’re they not supposed to be the first deliveries?

Erchless Estate on Beauly to Cannich Road. In fact there were 20 in total. Given I have never seen one in the flesh - I had to give chase in our baby EV. As they say you wait for ages and then…….. Made my day.

Just up the road from where my great grandfather comes from

 

[Steven]

I must admit that I am gradually losing interest:
- first all these issues with configuration and ordering,
- then a deadline for changing the configuration without showing my changes (still not),
- never any call from a dealer (he did not know nothing),
- very slow if any responses from customer service (but friendly),
- a build delay renewed every month now to December (was September)
- and finally this month no dealer (and service) in my region at all.
- Where shall the car being serviced (next dealer 250km away).
- What about the aftersales service, parts, repairs, equipment?

No proactive reactions from Ineos, you always had to push them. They had month and years to establish a working communication platform with there customers, but failed. Only bright spot this forum, where I get information and find fellow sufferer. Without this I would have canceled my order, I think, because of lost faith in this company Ineos.

 

[Steven]

blueTdi,
keep calm. INEOS will set up a new sales partner in Berlin after all.
Besides, you can have the Grenadier serviced in Biesenthal or Wildau.

I was told last year I would have a Grenadier in October. It never came and can’t see when/if it ever will. As a result I pulled my order and bought another car. Best decision ever. Ineos have a lot to learn about making and selling cars to say the least.

 

[Davman]

I suppose that is the very definition of this thread - sick of waiting.
I am sure they have lots to learn about making and selling cars, it all depends on what you are willing to put up with.
One of the most popular cars in Oz is the Ford Ranger. One of the most anticipated new releases in a decade is the latest Ranger model releases in the last 6 months.
So good is this car apparently that VW also jumped into bed with Ford , and will use the same platform for their new Amarok. These cars will be cross shopped against the Grenadier - particularly when the dual cab version arrives.

However there is a growing scandal in Oz about the growing number of these cars that Ford are having to buy back from the customers due to the faults that they are experiencing, that cannot be fixed adequately.

Now in my book, I would have thought that there wasn’t much that Ford and VW wouldn’t know about making and selling cars …….. however perhaps I am wrong.

As such, I will give Ineos a bit more benefit of the doubt.

Enjoy your new vehicle

 

[DaveB]

I was told last year I would have a Grenadier in October. It never came and can’t see when/if it ever will. As a result I pulled my order and bought another car. Best decision ever. Ineos have a lot to learn about making and selling cars to say the least.

 

[painter]

Sorry if my earlier message upset you. I have not reached the frustration level that some others may have reached after waiting months or even years.

No, my fault. I'm crapping (with humour) when there's not a darn thing thing I can do about deliveries. Except maybe what I had planned to do at the roll over of the year, namely leave this topic to sit for a number of months then come back here and see what's cooking with reports etc.

I just thought "several months" was risible, seeing as Ineos emailed an update to me Dec 23, 2022 saying, "Our North American production schedule is on track, [sic} and we'll start building vehicles for you – as 2024 Model Year – from September 2023." To me that's puts enjoying my new vehicle more than "several months" but that could be deemed semantics.

I'm not upset or frustrated, I always figured my market would be at the back end of any roll out. A bit disappointed though that at this juncture, due to delays, I still don't know if I'm in or out.

All good though.

Enjoy your time on the Forum

 

[Deleted User Account.]

If you think Ineos have a problem, look at Rivian..........

What's the problem? They're making vehicles and meeting production targets. I put in reservations for a Rivian and a grenadier at the same time and is venture I'm much closer to getting the Rivian before the grenadier is even released here in the states.

 

[bemax]

I was told last year I would have a Grenadier in October. It never came and can’t see when/if it ever will. As a result I pulled my order and bought another car. Best decision ever. Ineos have a lot to learn about making and selling cars to say the least.

Many car orders from well known companies have longer waiting times at the moment without better explanations.
It’s probably not a good idea to play early adopter for a new company and expecting that everything runs perfect as it’s been showed in the glossy brochures.

 

[DCPU]

What's the problem? They're making vehicles and meeting production targets.

Actually they've just missed their latest target.

Shares of the automaker declined by more than 80% during 2022.

It laid off over 800 employees in late 2022.

And just this month it's lost several top executives, including the vice president overseeing body engineering and its head of supply chain.

Other than that they're doing well and you can read their owner's manual online. *

* I may have mentioned that several times in other threads.

 

[Jean Mercier]

So, yesterday I was at my dealer/importer Hedin in Lokeren, Belgium. This is the main Mercedes retailer in Belgium! The guy responsible for Ineos was very friendly and stopped some administrative work to show me the car, he took his time (I had no appointment).

I should have known better, I should have seen it on the picture they send by e-mail, but I concentrated on the text: “a production model”, but it is still a prototype! Came out of the production line though, but it is a production line prototype, with number PT02-032. So, I didn’t take pictures of details, wouldn’t have added value here on this forum.

What did I learn:

• The delays are indeed due to a software that wasn’t finalized yet.
• The production is going on; my car is still scheduled to be built in January (I don’t believe it; I think it will be February).
• On this prototype in the showroom there are small problems that were solved in the final models, for instance a rubber problem on the front doors that obliges you to slam the door quite hard to get it closed.
• Hedin Lokeren hopes to get it’s first showroom models before half February, and also the first customer cars. I will not be the first.
• It could be that some removable accessories will be delivered after delivering the car to the customer. They will not be mounted at the factory.
• The choice for Hedin as global importer and retailer in some smaller countries (Scandinavia, The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland) is not related to some local laws but a decision of Ineos after negotiating with Hedin.
• The car will soon be “authorized” by the Belgian authorities.
• Hedin is also in touch with some Insurance Companies and tries to show them what kind of drivers are buying the car to get a lower insurance fee.
• I asked him if sales are going well in Belgium, and he said he was quite happy with the results, taking into account that he couldn’t offer test drives yet!
• And he was not so happy that the communication of Ineos doesn’t take into account the specific situation of customers of global importers/retailers like Hedin, for instance the “refund of the 2500€ deposits”!

For me, the choice of Hedin was from the beginning on a disillusion. They are not 4X4 specialists, although they sell G-Wagons. Although the Ineos guy there (a Hedin employee) is very friendly, he has no real 4X4 soul. And he could not answer some of my very simple technical questions. But again, he took his time, and was friendly.

 

[DCPU]

Nice update.

Thanks for taking the time to tap it all out.

 

[emax]

This year we procured an aerial ladder for our fire brigade. In addition to the general delays due to supply chain problems, the vehicle was not up to date with the latest software when it was handed over. We´ve been told, we´ll get the update for january 2023. So even large and experienced companies have their problems.

Software problems are nothing unusal. Everywhere.

But when automakers ship a car knowing it can't be used properly due to a software problem, they're just bad.

Even worse, they probably already get the money because they delivered, so the cost problem (paying without being able to generate revenue) is pushed away to the dealers.

Though the latter doesn't apply to "agents", this seems to be common practice elsewhere.

 

[Deleted User Account.]

Actually they've just missed their latest target.

Shares of the automaker declined by more than 80% during 2022.

It laid off over 800 employees in late 2022.

And just this month it's lost several top executives, including the vice president overseeing body engineering and its head of supply chain.

Other than that they're doing well and you can read their owner's manual online. *

* I may have mentioned that several times in other threads.

That's a tad misleading. They adjusted their production target to 25k in March of last year and ended up making 24,337 by end of year (with 10,020 of them being in the 4th quarter).

Layoff announcement was in July, not manufacturing specific jobs, all while they weren't running a full three shifts. Second was added in the third quarter and a third was added in the fourth as they've continued to ramp up production. Further changes in workforce and executive staffing is to be expected. Ineos is no different with new executives being brought aboard in the last few weeks.

Progress is being made in the production of their $5b plant in Georgia near me. Service centers are up and running and I'm seeing Rivians on the road now.

Stock for many other companies were down significantly in 2022, auto companies as well, ev companies most notably with Rivian in line with the others.

Rivian Automotive cash on hand for the quarter ending September 30, 2022 was $13.272B, a 157.41% increase year-over-year.

Ultimately they're headed in the right direction.

 

[Trialmaster]

I was told last year I would have a Grenadier in October. It never came and can’t see when/if it ever will. As a result I pulled my order and bought another car. Best decision ever. Ineos have a lot to learn about making and selling cars to say the least.

Steven I agree. Was told it would be in production yesterday - but NO. I emailed by dealer on Wednesday - NOTHING. I emailed INEOS who said it would be delivered by the end of January. My nerves are frayed, as like all of us we work on detail and unfortunately it somewhat lacking.

I sincerely hope in a few days time, my attitude changes as I know my vehicle is in production.

Out of interest do we know if Ineos have two shifts and are they working weekends (I would expect so)?

NB: I really don't care what Rivian are doing - this is a Grenadier forum.

 

[JonSutton]

I think we should reflect that Ineos Automotive are a new manufacturer with no track record in making motor vehicles. Sure they are part of a vast group but IMO most of those who reserved and then ordered knew the potential delay issues given what happened when COVID hit the manufacturing sector in Europe and then further afield.
Whilst I’m not thrilled to wait I will wait and see what the truck is like, certainly from what I’ve seen and touched it feels like it’ll do the job. They’ve picked the right suppliers as far as I can see, my only serious concern is the transfer box and then only because it’s probably built in the USA which for a European user might mean repair delays if it fails badly but T have a great repute for solid engineering so it should be fine if I don’t abuse it and it isn’t electronic so I expect it to be almost bomb proof if the lube is up to scratch.
Suggest folks stay with it, I’m sure Ineos will stick at it.

 

[DCPU]

I think we should reflect that Ineos Automotive are a new manufacturer with no track record in making motor vehicles.

Whilst technically correct, they have bought a company that was a going concern, with an excellent record of building over 2.5 million vehicles over a 20 year plus history.

They’ve picked the right suppliers as far as I can see, my only serious concern is the transfer box and then only because it’s probably built in the USA which for a European user might mean repair delays if it fails badly but T have a great repute for solid engineering so it should be fine

Early ones were marked as Mexico but perhaps series production could be coming from their Belgian factory?

 

[Fidei Defensor]

What's the problem? They're making vehicles and meeting production targets. I put in reservations for a Rivian and a grenadier at the same time and is venture I'm much closer to getting the Rivian before the grenadier is even released here in the states.

Look at their stock price. How much longer do you think they will survive?