Sick of waiting

[Cheshire cat]

I would be more than happy to wait, but both my TD5 90 and Jag are non ULEZ compliant and i begrudge paying £12.50 a day to drive to work.I have until the end of August to make a decision if the car is not ready sooner.

I feel your pain with that ULEZ situation. Thankfully not hit my part of the world yet although I’m sure it’s coming. Hopefully we both get our vehicles soon.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Mr Know-It-All (Google) has a different opinion:

"TREMEC is a manufacturer of automobile transmissions and drivetrain components based in Querétaro, Mexico."

So better forget about further delaying our deliveries here in Europe ;-)

Tremec was established in the US in 1964 as a joint venture between a established US company and a two start up in Mexico. Our influence continues to spill over.

Here is the write up from ineos on why Tremec:
The team at INEOS Automotive spoke to
suppliers all around the world, over a period of
several months – and even looked at designing
the component in-house. But ultimately, the
best solution came from a company better
known in the United States than in Europe.
Renowned for building transmission systems
for performance pick up trucks and muscle cars,
Tremec specialise in high-torque applications –
which made them a great fit for the Grenadier.
So highly regarded are they in America, that
enthusiasts often buy a truck and immediately
swap out the gearbox for one made by Tremec.
The Grenadier’s bespoke transfer case was
designed by INEOS Automotive in close
collaboration with engineers at Tremec.
Built from the ground up for all-wheel drive
applications, it allows for manual high and low
gear ranges, plus diff lock selection – allowing
the driver to send power to just one axle or
wheel, if conditions demand it.
For INEOS, Tremec has proven to be a rewarding
partner by giving the Grenadier the requisite
level of off-road capability. For Tremec,
meanwhile, working with INEOS has opened up
new opportunities. Transfer cases like this one
complement their existing product range, while
the Grenadier’s profile in the UK and Europe will
help them win new customers on this side of
the Atlantic.

 

[DCPU]

Mr Know-It-All (Google) has a different opinion:

"TREMEC is a manufacturer of automobile transmissions and drivetrain components based in Querétaro, Mexico."

So better forget about further delaying our deliveries here in Europe ;-)

 

[@nd]

Looks like a registration number change I did a few months ago has not caught up on the TFL website yet, so free for now

someone fcuked up there, you luck lucky Ba$t47d

 

[Arkaig]

So we know a few more Grennys have now actually been handed over in the UK – here’s another lucky owner delivered last week through Harwoods in Portsmouth – (from FB).

I am amazed at the total lack of publicity on handovers both from Ineos and the agents/dealers themselves. It really is as though the agents/dealers are being completely gagged under formal instruction by Ineos. I find this to be extremely concerning. Along with the increasing credibility gap in meaningful communication, there is a lack of transparency as to the large number of customer vehicles being stored at agents/dealers (some now over 2 months) and the requisite works or “service campaigns” required prior to handover to customers.

C’mon Ineos – be open and transparent with your customers, the purchase experience is wearing very thin for all of us!

 

[Barney]

We've seen this clean, gravelled yard before. Nice dog.

 

[Logsplitter]

So we know a few more Grennys have now actually been handed over in the UK – here’s another lucky owner delivered last week through Harwoods in Portsmouth – (from FB).

View attachment 7808767

View attachment 7808768

View attachment 7808769

I am amazed at the total lack of publicity on handovers both from Ineos and the agents/dealers themselves. It really is as though the agents/dealers are being completely gagged under formal instruction by Ineos. I find this to be extremely concerning. Along with the increasing credibility gap in meaningful communication, there is a lack of transparency as to the large number of customer vehicles being stored at agents/dealers (some now over 2 months) and the requisite works or “service campaigns” required prior to handover to customers.

C’mon Ineos – be open and transparent with your customers, the purchase experience is wearing very thin for all of us!

I don’t want any publicity on handover and certainly not splashed all over Facebook. But that’s just me. Some people may like the limelight I suppose

 

[Arkaig]

We've seen this clean, gravelled yard before. Nice dog.

Apologies if the photos have been posted previously - my oversight, however my comments remain relevant.

 

[Arkaig]

I don’t want any publicity on handover and certainly not splashed all over Facebook. But that’s just me. Some people may like the limelight I suppose

I personally don't want any publicity either on handover but I'd be happy for the vehicle to be photgraphed if it assists the agent/dealer in their promotion of the brand.

 

[JOB]

I personally don't want any publicity either on handover but I'd be happy for the vehicle to be photgraphed if it aissists the agent/dealer in their promotion of the brand.

Precisely, I don't see why a number plate blanked photo would be especially bad from any owner's point of view. If I was among the first customers collecting my car, I couldn't care less if my handover is posted all over Piccadilly Circus.

 

[joejet]

If the customer doesn't want publicity end of....it's not in the agents or Ineos gift to gather the publicity if it is not wanted.

not sure i understand why you quoted me in this?
(joejet said: I have the same issue. been looking at 2nd hand G-Waggon as a backup) this was in relation to not getting a delivery before the end of august, however my Landrover seems to be missing on the TFL ulez site.

 

[Eric]

not sure i understand why you quoted me in this?
(joejet said: I have the same issue. been looking at 2nd hand G-Waggon as a backup)

Sorry posted in wrong spot. Trouble with doing things on my phone, screen to small, sorry again 🏳

 

[joejet]

Sorry posted in wrong spot. Trouble with doing things on my phone, screen to small, sorry again 🏳

No problem I was just confused.

 

[Barney]

Anyway. I for myself don't want more photos of myself on the internet. You can't get them out anymore. I'm online for work but not privately. I don't want anything more than here. And there is already enough information. Make it small and shut up is the motto ;-)

 

[TD5-90]

Tremec was established in the US in 1964 as a joint venture between a established US company and a two start up in Mexico. Our influence continues to spill over.

Here is the write up from ineos on why Tremec:
The team at INEOS Automotive spoke to
suppliers all around the world, over a period of
several months – and even looked at designing
the component in-house. But ultimately, the
best solution came from a company better
known in the United States than in Europe.
Renowned for building transmission systems
for performance pick up trucks and muscle cars,
Tremec specialise in high-torque applications –
which made them a great fit for the Grenadier.
So highly regarded are they in America, that
enthusiasts often buy a truck and immediately
swap out the gearbox for one made by Tremec.
The Grenadier’s bespoke transfer case was
designed by INEOS Automotive in close
collaboration with engineers at Tremec.
Built from the ground up for all-wheel drive
applications, it allows for manual high and low
gear ranges, plus diff lock selection – allowing
the driver to send power to just one axle or
wheel, if conditions demand it.
For INEOS, Tremec has proven to be a rewarding
partner by giving the Grenadier the requisite
level of off-road capability. For Tremec,
meanwhile, working with INEOS has opened up
new opportunities. Transfer cases like this one
complement their existing product range, while
the Grenadier’s profile in the UK and Europe will
help them win new customers on this side of
the Atlantic.

Yeah, that Ineos text is well known...
It doesn't mention, however, that the transfer case is Made in Mexico. BTW, to me it doesn't matter, in any way, where in the world it is built, as long as it's GOOD!

Copied from the TREMEC website ( https://www.tremec.com/menu/kuo-profile/ ):
"TREMEC is a wholly owned subsidiary of Grupo KUO, S.A.B. de C.V.
Grupo KUO, through its subsidiaries, manufactures and sells consumer business products, chemicals, and auto parts in Mexico, the United States, Canada, Europe, Asia, and other international markets. It operates through three segments: Consumer Sector, Chemical Sector, and Automotive Sector.
The company exports its products to over 70 countries and is headquartered in Mexico City, Mexico."

 

[AWo]

I think so. Your vehicle has now been subjected to the highest QA scrutiny. No other manufacturers mass produced car goes through this level of inspection. I am confident when they finally let you get your hands on it, it will be the most reliable vehicle on the road.

On which evidence is based that?

Manufacturers like BMW use for decades complete pre-production plants only for the purpose to test that production quality is high and all processes are smooth (invented by Prof. Reitzle before the most successful launch of a car from BMW up to that point, the 3-series). The production is mirrored there 1:1 except not painted parts are used before the actual start of production.

Ever listened to Dr. Storp, resposible for the S-Class and which effort they invested?

You can be sure that Ineos hasn't reached that level. How should they? That takes a lot of time and money and would have meant even more delays.

BTW: I don't know, but do they have 3D scanners for parts and complete cars where toleranes are measured over time to see if they run away? Data is then fed back to the machinery to compensate that. I guess as not all chassis parts made by Ineos that could be difficult to cover the whole car. However, does someone know if such systems are used?

It is common in the automotive industry to jump from prototype 2b to the production vehicle. Ineos managed to need at least a 2d and still things need to be replaced in customer production vehicles. That looks to me like a lot of pressure to deliver cars (as I wrote already by raking expectations and to get all the bills paid, which pop up every day).

Of course, today still "old&settled" manufacturers fail to bring flawless cars to the market, for various reasons. Often because of cost-cutting rounds, where engineers need to find a few cents and dollars which can be saved.

All of that is a little more complicated than just claiming "the manufacturer did all the best and everything right, the bad suppliers are failing!". Building a car according to the rules in the three major markets is a very complex and dificult thing with many places and opportunities where things can go wrong. Therefore respect to Ineos, they finally seem to make it, but that there are and will be problems is obvious and normal. To be honest, who would have expected it would the other way around? There are car manufacturers who do that job for 100 years and still produce cars with problems.

Manufacturers repeat mistakes like these cost cutting rounds or because they keep their suppliers short on budget or maybe as a new player with no experience you hand out poor data to suppliers because you do not know what is common, yet. Listen to people who worked or work in the car industry and you hear that again and again. You get what you pay for.

AWo

 

[Cheshire cat]

To address pa

On which evidence is based that?

Manufacturers like BMW use for decades complete pre-production plants only for the purpose to test that production quality is high and all processes are smooth (invented by Prof. Reitzle before the most successful launch of a car from BMW up to that point, the 3-series). The production is mirrored there 1:1 except not painted parts are used before the actual start of production.

Ever listened to Dr. Storp, resposible for the S-Class and which effort they invested?

You can be sure that Ineos hasn't reached that level. How should they? That takes a lot of time and money and would have meant even more delays.

BTW: I don't know, but do they have 3D scanners for parts and complete cars where toleranes are measured over time to see if they run away? Data is then fed back to the machinery to compensate that. I guess as not all chassis parts made by Ineos that could be difficult to cover the whole car. However, does someone know if such systems are used?

It is common in the automotive industry to jump from prototype 2b to the production vehicle. Ineos managed to need at least a 2d and still things need to be replaced in customer production vehicles. That looks to me like a lot of pressure to deliver cars (as I wrote already by raking expectations and to get all the bills paid, which pop up every day).

Of course, today still "old&settled" manufacturers fail to bring flawless cars to the market, for various reasons. Often because of cost-cutting rounds, where engineers need to find a few cents and dollars which can be saved.

All of that is a little more complicated than just claiming "the manufacturer did all the best and everything right, the bad suppliers are failing!". Building a car according to the rules in the three major markets is a very complex and dificult thing with many places and opportunities where things can go wrong. Therefore respect to Ineos, they finally seem to make it, but that there are and will be problems is obvious and normal. To be honest, who would have expected it would the other way around? There are car manufacturers who do that job for 100 years and still produce cars with problems.

Manufacturers repeat mistakes like these cost cutting rounds or because they keep their suppliers short on budget or maybe as a new player with no experience you hand out poor data to suppliers because you do not know what is common, yet. Listen to people who worked or work in the car industry and you hear that again and again. You get what you pay for.

AWo

To address at least part of your speculation. Ineos do use the 3d laser scanning you refer to. It can be seen in their information videos.

 

[Steveo]

To address pa

To address at least part of your speculation. Ineos do use the 3d laser scanning you refer to. It can be seen in their information videos.

and suppliers will be expected to establish quality statistics which drive an inspection regime, either rigorous or more relaxed, based on the CpK and control chart. Whether they use scanning depends on the part and the suppliers capabilities.

 

[trobex]

To address pa

To address at least part of your speculation. Ineos do use the 3d laser scanning you refer to. It can be seen in their information videos.

They use a top tier scanning system - basically as good as it gets for 3D laser scanning, and it has very tight tolerances. Japanese made Mazda's had a similar system, one which gave accuracies on final panel folding to 0.15m-0.2mm. Not sure how tight the IG has been made to but would assume it will be rather tight.

 

[Tazzieman]

They use a top tier scanning system - basically as good as it gets for 3D laser scanning, and it has very tight tolerances. Japanese made Mazda's had a similar system, one which gave accuracies on final panel folding to 0.15m-0.2mm. Not sure how tight the IG has been made to but would assume it will be rather tight.

I'm easily impressed. My Landy has 5-10mm tolerances in body panels and it hasn't ever taken a big hit. I'm not kidding