Robert Pepper review coming

Really respect Robert Pepper. Very much interested in what he has to say.

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[ADVAW8S]

Yeah, I really respect Robert, but it’s disappointing to evaluate the grenadier’s traction control against jlr/toyota, when the very idea of this car is not to use those electronic tools, but to rely on simpler mechanicals, skills, and diff locks where fitted.
and using a single driver is likely a better indicator too… bit of a shame.
Someone like Robert can be expected to see the sub-set of users the grenadier is aimed at, its driver, less/no aids, and intended robustness, and evaluate it accordingly. He does often refer to robustness, noting only time will tell, but it does feel like his style is ending up with at best ’faint praise’, and sometimes adopting a negative tone for a car that you’d expect he’d be grateful for, at least as part of the landscape.

I disagree, first because this only round one of his comparison. Second, as someone else has point out, most ppl will have the lockers on before attempting that terrain. You don't have a choice in the JLR, it's automatic. I think Robert did a great job pointing out that you can accomplish the same goal but one has to think versus point and shoot. You see that the Nissan struggled even with their traction control.

 

[DaveB]

I disagree, first because this only round one of his comparison. Second, as someone else has point out, most ppl will have the lockers on before attempting that terrain. You don't have a choice in the JLR, it's automatic. I think Robert did a great job pointing out that you can accomplish the same goal but one has to think versus point and shoot. You see that the Nissan struggled even with their traction control.

I agree.
He was pointing out the facts and making a fair comparison.
However I also think that most people on here don't want to rely on electronic aids and prefer the lockers and driving skill.

 

[AnD3rew]

Marcel didn't do the Grenadier any favours by doing the test at half the speed of the others (which by the way was what was asked of them all). The Patrol pretty much had to flog it up rather than go slow and steady. I believe that if the IG had taken the same speed with a bit more momentum early (he really did just amble up to start) it would have done much better. That said, it probably does have one of the worst traction controls. The others have had a long time to get it right.
This would have been a better comparison test with the one uninvested driver.
The one thing not mentioned - how do they go if the electrickery fails? The KISS (keep it simple stupid) principal then comes into play.
I was surprised that the Patrol was probably the least effective of the four. Take away the suspension lift and larger tyres and see how it would go.

Agree

 

[AnD3rew]

I disagree, first because this only round one of his comparison. Second, as someone else has point out, most ppl will have the lockers on before attempting that terrain. You don't have a choice in the JLR, it's automatic. I think Robert did a great job pointing out that you can accomplish the same goal but one has to think versus point and shoot. You see that the Nissan struggled even with their traction control.

There will be 3-4 of these. He has also done another one with engine braking going down a steep hill. The Grenadier won that by a mile.

 

[AnD3rew]

I agree.
He was pointing out the facts and making a fair comparison.
However I also think that most people on here don't want to rely on electronic aids and prefer the lockers and driving skill.

The Land Rover Traction control system is second to none, it is superb, Mitsubishi and Toyota are behind but still ahead of the rest of the pack. No shame to lose that one to Land Rover.

 

[DaveB]

There will be 3-4 of these. He has also done another one with engine braking going down a steep hill. The Grenadier wine that by a mile.

I think the Grenadier is still coming down the hill.
It won that contest easily

 

[ECrider]

I'm 0.07 mins in and wondering why the Defender and Toyota numberplates say 'Gren1' or 'Greni'?? Perhaps all will become clear...

 

[DaveB]

I'm 0.07 mins in and wondering why the Defender and Toyota numberplates say 'Gren1' or 'Greni'?? Perhaps all will become clear...

They are held on by cable ties so i guess they are fake.

 

[Davman]

I thought it was another great review by Robert.
Why would you rely on traction control if you have lockers..... even just using the rears would be enough.

The Grenadier does is so much easier climbing the hill at low speed/revs, whereas the others have to increase rev's to engage the traction control.
Low revving solid axle suspension, Versus high revving IFS - I know which is going to last longer, and which is going to break quicker.

I loved it how the 300 Series GR sport bloke has ordered a Grenadier - he knows something.

 

[MrMike]

I think one thing we haven't touched on in this discussion is that it's in "the group", as he mentioned, he's got all of the best available in front of him. That's one thing that surprised me mildly.
He could have easily left the Grenadier out....but no

 

[255/85]

The Land Rover Traction control system is second to none, it is superb, Mitsubishi and Toyota are behind but still ahead of the rest of the pack. No shame to lose that one to Land Rover.

In one of the Grenadier reviews Pepper says that Traction Control is sometimes preferred to "cross axle lockers". He didn't go into any details. Maybe I heard it wrong?

 

[MrMike]

In one of the Grenadier reviews Pepper says that Traction Control is sometimes preferred to "cross axle lockers". He didn't go into any details. Maybe I heard it wrong?

The reason has got to do with steering, which is limited with locked differentials. He mentions it in his latest video comparison

 

[LC0013]

The reason has got to do with steering, which is limited with locked differentials. He mentions it in his latest video comparison

So, would that be good or bad for the Grenadier?

 

[stickshifter]

Interesting video from Mr Pepper. If you were approaching that kind of terrain you would have the lockers engaged every time so are not relying on the traction control, very happy with the way the Grenadier handled the situation.

Unless
(1) the terrain is also a side-slope (definitely not the front locker, but maybe the rear locker if the angle isn't too severe), or
(2) you are facing switchbacks (definitely not the front locker, and probably not the rear locker either)

Mechanical locking differentials are - in my experience - far superior for technical off-road driving when compared to most traction systems, but they have limitations, and they should not be used if they pose a hazard (based on the terrain). Loss of control of a vehicle is a real hazard that comes with locking up the front differential on a side slope. It could be one, very specific use-case, in which the tech in a Landrover might be superior to a locking differential. But that is hearsay, as I've never owned a Landy, and I haven't driven one since I was in the service 40 years ago. I've heard that there have been some new developments with Landrover since then

 

[MrMike]

So, would that be good or bad for the Grenadier?

It depends on the situation. Ideally a more responsive traction control system would be beneficial especially in sand as the vehicle would start to bury itself before traction control is effectively actuated. This, I hope can be rectified by an update (hopefully)

 

[MrMike]

Unless
(1) the terrain is also a side-slope (definitely not the front locker, but maybe the rear locker if the angle isn't too severe), or
(2) you are facing switchbacks (definitely not the front locker, and probably not the rear locker either)

Mechanical locking differentials are - in my experience - far superior for technical off-road driving when compared to most traction systems, but they have limitations, and they should not be used if they pose a hazard (based on the terrain). Loss of control of a vehicle is a real hazard that comes with locking up the front differential on a side slope. It could be one, very specific use-case, in which the tech in a Landrover might be superior to a locking differential. But that is hearsay, as I've never owned a Landy, and I haven't driven one since I was in the service 40 years ago. I've heard that there have been some new developments with Landrover since then

I think what Robbert is referring to is less technical terrain where ease of steering would be preferred.

 

[AnD3rew]

In one of the Grenadier reviews Pepper says that Traction Control is sometimes preferred to "cross axle lockers". He didn't go into any details. Maybe I heard it wrong?

You heard it wrong, he calls diff lockers “cross axle lockers” not traction control. Different things.

 

[AnD3rew]

The reason has got to do with steering, which is limited with locked differentials. He mentions it in his latest video comparison

He is (rightly) a fan of being able to lock the rear and have traction control continue to work on the front. Unfortunately INEOS disables traction control altogether if either locker is engaged. And yes the reason you might choose not to lock the front is that a locked front diff significantly limits steering

 

[Steve.B]

It depends on the situation. Ideally a more responsive traction control system would be beneficial especially in sand as the vehicle would start to bury itself before traction control is effectively actuated. This, I hope can be rectified by an update (hopefully)

The first thing you do when driving on sand is disable traction control it limits effective power when crossing dunes etc and you loose momentum very quickly, but sand is quite unique.

 

[Michael H.]

The first thing you do when driving on sand is disable traction control it limits effective power when crossing dunes etc and you loose momentum very quickly, but sand is quite unique.

There’s a difference between traction control and electronic stability control.

With the Grenadier, you can’t manually disable traction control, but you can disable electronic stability control by pressing the ESC OFF button. ESC is also automatically reduced when you lock the centre diff or engage off-road mode.