Robert Pepper review coming

Really respect Robert Pepper. Very much interested in what he has to say.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid02pdDbS2b8Ya2Ua2yN3UZH3DvTvJ1gd8o7Su6KJuehKqU1uZHZuXauCjfoqPqqxrTrl&id=100064327704379

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[NQ94]

It will be good to see a reviewer include the cost of servicing, basic parts and parts availability. There are going to be instances where unforeseen breakages and damage occurs to a 4x4 that are not covered by warranty or may be easier to repair without an insurance claim. Possibly use a short basic list for the vehicles and include things like filters, windscreen, rear door glass, side mirrors, cv joints, head and tail light assemblies, track/ tie rods and shockies. The parts that are commonly seen damaged on the tracks/trails or touring with a trailer.

 

[MrMike]

Hi Andrew,
For everything besides sand I totally agree Traction Control is useful but for sand we will have to agree to disagree.

@AnD3rew & @Steve.B
you both could be talking about 2 different systems. There's "traction control " as in ABS and ESC the latter is definitely not good for sand as it literally stops the vehicle in its tracks. And "break traction control " which is what you want in sand.
Or have I got it wrong?

 

[Tazzieman]

It will be good to see a reviewer include the cost of servicing, basic parts and parts availability. There are going to be instances where unforeseen breakages and damage occurs to a 4x4 that are not covered by warranty or may be easier to repair without an insurance claim. Possibly use a short basic list for the vehicles and include things like filters, windscreen, rear door glass, side mirrors, cv joints, head and tail light assemblies, track/ tie rods and shockies. The parts that are commonly seen damaged on the tracks/trails or touring with a trailer.

I reckon Robert would be open to that suggestion. Message him.

 

[AnD3rew]

Hi Andrew,
For everything besides sand I totally agree Traction Control is useful but for sand we will have to agree to disagree.

Yes we disagree

@AnD3rew & @Steve.B
you both could be talking about 2 different systems. There's "traction control " as in ABS and ESC the latter is definitely not good for sand as it literally stops the vehicle in its tracks. And "break traction control " which is what you want in sand.
Or have I got it wrong?

there are two different things, I think we both know what they are, we just have a difference of opinion about them. I agree that traction control which uses brakes to slow a wheel spinning at different speeds to the others and directs torque to the wheels that have traction is still useful on sand. ESC not so much as it reacts to steering position and sideways movement and can reduce the engine speed as well as brake wheels, but it does it differently and is likely to cause you to bog.

 

[Rok_Dr]

I've always engaged centre diff licks on dirt roads; many times I'm glad I could control skidding.
Narrow twisty dirt roads with oncoming traffic (god save me from tourists), animals etc.

Agreed. I always lock the centre diff on dirt in my D2. It improves steering control, less wandering and drifting.

cheers
Steve

 

[bakepl]

You don't have to engage centre diff if going from bitumen to a dirt road only if the road was particularly slippery or muddy.
You have to engage it in many 4wd's such as dual cab utes, because they are two wheel drive usually

Maybe but my own experience towing heavy over badly corrugated dirt roads it makes a world of difference...

 

[Max]

He is extremely thorough - but I was disappointed that he never really concluded which vehicle was the best for the task set! I agree there were statements on certain aspects, but no final conclusion. Very good explanation on live and IRS suspension.

Having said that, he is one of the best reviewers to date on the Ineos and a good watch.

He is very diplomatic at the same time and credit to him because he is showing off top-shelf products that are stronger than each other in certain areas I am sure...if he was going to bag something it wouldn't be in that lineup, IMO...I agree a great reviewer...

 

[MattA]

Maybe but my own experience towing heavy over badly corrugated dirt roads it makes a world of difference...

Absolutely, I have been driving constant 4wds with selectable centre diff lock ( transfer case) for over 20 years and always lock the centre diff as soon as I leave the bitumen, it makes a world of difference to stability and control which increases even more when towing
Just in case anyone is wondering, yes I have driven 1000’s of km on Australian outback roads and 1000s of km on 4wd tracks and probably over 1000 km on sand

 

[Max]

Robert P. has asked me to try out lots of combinations …

1. drive in high range
2. high range / off-road mode
3. high range / ESC off
4. low range
5. low range / off-road mode
6. low range / ESC off

He's very thorough.

And of course I’ll be experimenting with different tyre pressures.

Michael H. sand review coming

Can't wait...I have jumped into the deep end at Inskip and failed just at quick in and out without prep but survived any embarrassment...so keen to hear your review cheers

 

[DaveB]

Absolutely, I have been driving constant 4wds with selectable centre diff lock ( transfer case) for over 20 years and always lock the centre diff as soon as I leave the bitumen, it makes a world of difference to stability and control which increases even more when towing
Just in case anyone is wondering, yes I have driven 1000’s of km on Australian outback roads and 1000s of km on 4wd tracks and probably over 1000 km on sand

I don't tow so have zero experience in that situation.
All of the 4wd's I have owned have either been 2WD, 4H, 4L where the centre diff locks when 4H or 4L are selected and rear diff, when fitted, was manually selected.
I have also owned some SUV's that are AWD but not constant 4WD.
The Grenadier is different to all of them so I am only guessing at how it will behave on gravel/dirt until mine arrives in a couple of weeks.
Which 4WD's have a constant true 4wd system like the Grenadier other than old landrovers? my memory is a bit vague sometimes?

 

[CB]

Yeah, I really respect Robert, but it’s disappointing to evaluate the grenadier’s traction control against jlr/toyota, when the very idea of this car is not to use those electronic tools, but to rely on simpler mechanicals, skills, and diff locks where fitted.
and using a single driver is likely a better indicator too… bit of a shame.
Someone like Robert can be expected to see the sub-set of users the grenadier is aimed at, its driver, less/no aids, and intended robustness, and evaluate it accordingly. He does often refer to robustness, noting only time will tell, but it does feel like his style is ending up with at best ’faint praise’, and sometimes adopting a negative tone for a car that you’d expect he’d be grateful for, at least as part of the landscape.

Well, In this video, from a couple years ago, he explains why a vehicle with front and rear lockers will be able to go where a vehicle with electronic traction control, even with a rear locker, cant go. Obviously, the Grenadier with triple lockers is far superior.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBG8PBENZ-w



Also a great video by Ronny Dahl on using locking differentials

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkA9_vjQGhE

 

[NQ94]

I don't tow so have zero experience in that situation.
All of the 4wd's I have owned have either been 2WD, 4H, 4L where the centre diff locks when 4H or 4L are selected and rear diff, when fitted, was manually selected.
I have also owned some SUV's that are AWD but not constant 4WD.
The Grenadier is different to all of them so I am only guessing at how it will behave on gravel/dirt until mine arrives in a couple of weeks.
Which 4WD's have a constant true 4wd system like the Grenadier other than old landrovers? my memory is a bit vague sometimes?

Four wheel drives with proper locking center differential constant 4x4 systems past and present in the Australian market, Land Rover 90, 110, Defender, Discovery and Range Rover, Mercedes G Wagen, Toyota Land Cruiser 80 GXL and above, 100 GXL+, 200 and 300 series, Prado, Mitsubishi Pajero and some Tritons with Super Select transfer cases. Some Jeeps. Lada Nivas and Iveco Daily. Some models of the new Ford Ranger and Everest. The Nissan Y62 has a variable clutch arrangement and no center diff to give AWD on road. Probably missed a few.
Nearly all of the dual cabs utes, LC70, lowest spec LC80, LC100 and smaller wagons, use a 2H, 4H & 4L transfer case with no center diff lock so no front drive on road. Engaging 4x4 in these type of transfer cases is doing the same as engaging the center diff lock in a permanent 4x4 system giving a locked 50/50 drive front and rear.

 

[Steve.B]

He did say in a previous video that there was one clear loser in this comparison.
My money is on the Grenadier

Hi MrMike,
I Think you are being a tad pessimistic, in a previous video he said a 76 or 79 series Land Cruiser wouldn't even see what direction a Ineos Grenadier had gone, that may be your loser, and that may be why he hasn't included it in his comparison.
The 76 and 79 you would think are the Ineos Grenadier's closest competitor.

 

[MrMike]

Hi MrMike,
I Think you are being a tad pessimistic, in a previous video he said a 76 or 79 series Land Cruiser wouldn't even see what direction a Ineos Grenadier had gone, that may be your loser, and that may be why he hasn't included it in his comparison.
The 76 and 79 you would think are the Ineos Grenadier's closest competitor.

I'm not being pessimistic, just a guess I suppose and his comment was in relation to the vehicles being tested in the video series.
I agree that the 70 series is the closest (or even a GX 300) competitor which was one of the other potential options I had considered.

 

[stickshifter]

I think what Robbert is referring to is less technical terrain where ease of steering would be preferred.

I was replying to shopkeep, not Robert.

 

[MrMike]

I was replying to shopkeep, not Robert.

Apologies

 

[stickshifter]

Apologies

No worries!

 

[Max]

Robert P. has asked me to try out lots of combinations …

1. drive in high range
2. high range / off-road mode
3. high range / ESC off
4. low range
5. low range / off-road mode
6. low range / ESC off

He's very thorough.

And of course I’ll be experimenting with different tyre pressures.

Hi Michael, how did you go? I am so keen, anything to report? cheers Max

 

[Michael H.]

Hi @Max. The Grenadier did amazingly well. I was a bit worried because of the weight, but I had no issues at all, even in some very soft sections which had a LandCruiser and a Pajero struggling.

My setup was - tyres at 15psi / Off-road mode on / centre diff locked / ESC off / high range for flat runs along the beach / low range for dunes.

I’m working on a little video. I’m doing driver training on the weekend, so it probably won’t be posted till next week.

 

[Max]

ESC not so much as it reacts to steering position and sideways movement and can reduce the engine speed as well as brake wheels, but it does it differently and is likely to cause you to bog.

I can't wait for Michael H to post his findings but I became a casualty to the ESC and didn't realize until reading here that it was an issue...I was bogged in sand at Inskip as I have said here before and the car just slowed down so I put more power on and it started to dig...whoops! I stopped doing that and reverted to reverse, then front and rear lockers...with tail between my legs reversed out unscathed...can't wait to have another crack at that...