New Defender vs Ineos Grenadier

[To]

Have found this in the web under https://www.series2club.co.uk/new_forum/index.php/topic,12465.0.html

"All I will say is that having driven not far off 12,000km over the past two years in Grenadiers and about 1/2 that in extreme off road conditions, had I got the money to buy either, it would be the Grenadier all day every day. An absolutely phenominal vehicle and I absolutely love driving them and all mine are prototypes! Closest to the original Defender and built like a tank. The New Defender is an incredibly capable vehicle and head to head I'm sure there are functions that each will do better than the other.

If you do a direct feature comparison at each price level, you will see that the Grenadier is cheaper and has a great deal more on offer as standard. BMW Engines, ZF Transmission, Carraro axles, Eaton locking diffs and the whole lot engineered by Magna Styr is a pretty impressive lineup.

Yes... I do currently work for INEOS and have been doing consultancy for them since early 2018 having worked for Land Rover for 30 years. In my view, the Grenadier is a worthy sucessor for the old Defender and yes - there are plenty of people who really do use these vehicle in extreme arduous conditions. Plenty will buy it to pose with, but there is a huge core fleet requirement where the current Defender does not meet their requirements."

This is a realistic assessment and also reflects my brief driving impressions.

 

[Logsplitter]

Have found this in the web under https://www.series2club.co.uk/new_forum/index.php/topic,12465.0.html

"All I will say is that having driven not far off 12,000km over the past two years in Grenadiers and about 1/2 that in extreme off road conditions, had I got the money to buy either, it would be the Grenadier all day every day. An absolutely phenominal vehicle and I absolutely love driving them and all mine are prototypes! Closest to the original Defender and built like a tank. The New Defender is an incredibly capable vehicle and head to head I'm sure there are functions that each will do better than the other.

If you do a direct feature comparison at each price level, you will see that the Grenadier is cheaper and has a great deal more on offer as standard. BMW Engines, ZF Transmission, Carraro axles, Eaton locking diffs and the whole lot engineered by Magna Styr is a pretty impressive lineup.

Yes... I do currently work for INEOS and have been doing consultancy for them since early 2018 having worked for Land Rover for 30 years. In my view, the Grenadier is a worthy sucessor for the old Defender and yes - there are plenty of people who really do use these vehicle in extreme arduous conditions. Plenty will buy it to pose with, but there is a huge core fleet requirement where the current Defender does not meet their requirements."

This is a realistic assessment and also reflects my brief driving impressions.

What a fantastic endorsement. Thank you so much. I feel even more positive about my choice of vehicle if that is possible.can’t wait to get my hands on it

 

[To]

Have found this in the web under https://www.series2club.co.uk/new_forum/index.php/topic,12465.0.html

"All I will say is that having driven not far off 12,000km over the past two years in Grenadiers and about 1/2 that in extreme off road conditions, had I got the money to buy either, it would be the Grenadier all day every day. An absolutely phenominal vehicle and I absolutely love driving them and all mine are prototypes! Closest to the original Defender and built like a tank. The New Defender is an incredibly capable vehicle and head to head I'm sure there are functions that each will do better than the other.

If you do a direct feature comparison at each price level, you will see that the Grenadier is cheaper and has a great deal more on offer as standard. BMW Engines, ZF Transmission, Carraro axles, Eaton locking diffs and the whole lot engineered by Magna Styr is a pretty impressive lineup.

Yes... I do currently work for INEOS and have been doing consultancy for them since early 2018 having worked for Land Rover for 30 years. In my view, the Grenadier is a worthy sucessor for the old Defender and yes - there are plenty of people who really do use these vehicle in extreme arduous conditions. Plenty will buy it to pose with, but there is a huge core fleet requirement where the current Defender does not meet their requirements."

This is a realistic assessment and also reflects my brief driving impressions.

Here another statement from the Ineos guy:
"
Eaton supply the locking differentials for the Cararo axles. All pretty solid robust stuff
Yes- 5 link suspesnion and beam axles front and rear. Incredibly stable on the road and mind-blowingly impressive off road. I know just a bit about offf road driving and have driven pretty much every 4x4 available over the last 50 years or so and my recent off road driving experience really blew me away.

I learned many years ago to never knock the opposition. The Defender is also a phenominal beast - just too high tech for me. I used to run a technical support team for Land Rover and many of the people who worked for me now work as master techs in various dealers all over the world. I get scared when thye struggle to fix them and these are people with decades of JLR experience. And we will say no more about the Ingenium engine please - it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. Suffice to say that I would never, ever, ever, ever have one unless somebody else was paying for my engine changes..."
Sounds very good to me. Browsing this website is a lot of fun. Especially when you drive a 300 Tdi International yourself.

 

[klarie]

"plenty will buy it to pose with" Maybe.. I know one guy who will buy it solely for one reason - the roof panel.
He is however wealthy enough .. to pose .. so the guess is perhaps correct.

However I won't invest 75kEuro plus for just some roof switches. I expect a general purpose workhorse.. that gets me "there" wherever "there" is.
Reminds me - my Disco needs to see the pressure washer.. - carries a lot of mud underneath...

 

[Tazzieman]

Well after 12000km his opinion is a worthy one, even if he does work for INEOS.
Let alone his long experience with 4x4s

 

[DenisM]

Thank you To! I read the "Series2 Club link, and followed "DiffWhine's" further posts with much interest. The damaging anecdotal evidence regarding unreliability of the JLR Ingenium engine family indicates they learned little from the ongoing debacle of a flawed design leading to broken crankshafts in the 2.7 and 3.0 litre V6 diesel engines in the D3/D4. His observations regarding the behaviour of JLR dealers towards their customers appears to be a global cultural problem... judging by oft reported USA and Australian customer experiences!

 

[BMW.Leo]

after your comment Grenadier / Defender the waiting time feels even longer and longer

 

[To]

after your comment Grenadier / Defender the waiting time feels even longer and longer

But soon the waiting is over. First customer cars will be built.

 

[Sam]

OOF

this thread title goes straight for the jugular

Does anyone on here have a ND and swopping for IG?

I test-drove and ordered a ND - a lovely (luxury) car - but then all the tech and impracticalities started to nag at me. I realised the old Defender was Land Rovers’ last word on spirited utilitarianism, and the IG was the New Defender that LR refused to make.

 

[Logsplitter]

Check this

Ailing, Leaderless Jaguar Land Rover Has Options, But None Look Tempting

Jaguar Land Rover is losing money and needs bigger sales and a big electrification budget to compete against BMW and Mercedes. Neither is very likely, so the quicker it picks a partner or succumbs to a takeover, the sooner it can breathe easy.

www.forbes.com

 

[Andiamo]

I’ll chime in as someone owning a New Defender. Have a little over 32,000 trouble free miles and love the car. Admittedly I don’t get the chance to overland or drive off road enough and it’s primarily my daily driver. I ordered mine and spec’d the ‘locking diff’ along with the other main packages. Tows my 7500 lb boat with ease and all in all it’s been my favorite SUV I’ve owned. While I loved the original Defender - here in the US it just wasn’t practical for me to have one restored that would work for my needs. As a 3rd car sure it would work, but I have an Alfa 4C to fill that void. With that said I’ve been a reservation holder since the option first was release, and the Grenadier will likely replace my wife’s G550. To us it’s the closest modern interpretation of the Defender/GWagon and we’ll use it for both daily driving and adventures. At this point I’m planning on keeping my ND and swapping the Grenadier for the GWagon.

While many people think they wanted a more rugged interpretation of the New Defender the reality is they likely wouldn’t have sold as well. Can be a polarizing view here amongst us enthusiasts but I’ll be the one to say it. The vast majority of the population is too soft and uncompromising when it comes to actually paying their hard earned money. What people say they want vs what they’ll actually pay for is vastly different.

So in my personal experience the ND is wonderful, extremely comfortable to drive and way more capable that I am. It’s akin to comparing a digital watch to a mechanical one (for watch people out there). The GWagon on the other hand has been a let down, especially for a vehicle I wanted to love (ours is a 2015). For a vehicle that’s touted as being overbuilt and uber-reliable it’s been anything but. We won’t be buying another Mercedes, even had a new loaner pop up with a check engine light requiring an engine replacement… All to say that while everyone wants to put down LR for reliability - my experience has been anything but.

 

[DCPU]

Does anyone on here have a ND and swopping for IG?

I have an OD and swopping for IG...

Has been my daily drive for last 10 years.

Looked at the new Defender but knew from the start that it would be a backwards step for me.

 

[DCPU]

While many people think they wanted a more rugged interpretation of the New Defender the reality is they likely wouldn’t have sold as well. Can be a polarizing view here amongst us enthusiasts but I’ll be the one to say it. The vast majority of the population is too soft and uncompromising when it comes to actually paying their hard earned money. What people say they want vs what they’ll actually pay for is vastly different.

I don't think that analysis is wrong. New Defender was designed to sell 100k per annum as part of JLR's strategy to get to 1m annual sales.

Ineos are looking at @25k annual sales, so can be more focused.

All to say that while everyone wants to put down LR for reliability - my experience has been anything but.

When you have JLR senior management briefing that their warranty costs are too high ~ more than double what they would like ~ then it has the ring of truth about it.

 

[mkennedy009]

I can't wait to buy and pose. I will be the only one in my cul-de-sac to own one.

 

[To]

I have an OD and swopping for IG...

Has been my daily drive for last 10 years.

Looked at the new Defender but knew from the start that it would be a backwards step for me.

My plan. The Grenadier is coming in the next few weeks. Then my Defender 300 tdi goes into restoration (new chassis etc.) In the summer or autumn, when he is back, the Grenadier will be sold. Of course with profit. And when it's cold in the winter, I drive my Scoda.

 

[ECrider]

I can't wait to buy and pose. I will be the only one in my cul-de-sac to own one.

is it your cul-de-sac?

your sac, your rules

 

[KBKLR]

I had ND 240, one of the early ones, kept it for 2 years and 22k miles. Boat and Trailer work and off-road locally, and a bit of longer distance work. Series of LR products before that. Got my money back on the 240, took it as I was expecting the IG, bought a 2015 Ranger as an interim which will get sold when my IG turns up (great truck). Loved my ND, looking forward to my IG

 

[BMW.Leo]

But soon the waiting is over. First customer cars will be built.

i hope so, lets cross our fingers

 

[PanoramaJJ]

I have sold a wonderful car - which took me for 65.000 kms without problems through europe. It was very much fun to drive, I loved it. Okay, it was no ND, but it was a 6,2l V8 with 405 PS. Now I am waiting for my INEOS Grenadier Diesel - with less speed (no more 250 km/h), more weight (Camaro was "only" 1,9 tons). Now the money is on the account, waiting for a letter or a call from Ineos "please sent....". AND I AM SO HAPPY !!! (Since October I´ve been driving several cars of my friends, not bad, a cheap way to drive... good idea for heavy times without money). SEE YOU!

 

[Ever Pragmatic]

My plan. The Grenadier is coming in the next few weeks. Then my Defender 300 tdi goes into restoration (new chassis etc.) In the summer or autumn, when he is back, the Grenadier will be sold. Of course with profit. And when it's cold in the winter, I drive my Scoda.

My IG will be replacing my trusty Yeti, which has been an outstanding little car with 140,000 of trouble free miles behind it. Never got it stuck, and usually sees off the abundant Nissan Navaras on shoot days. The right tyres always make the difference of course..

I looked at the LD but it’s too posh to let gun dogs in, or kids with muddy wellies, or going to the dump with a tote bag of manky wood chippings or general care free use.
Reading the IG insider comment at the top of this thread has made me even keener to get my grubby hands on it in the next 3-4 weeks. And no, I don’t plan to sell it and have informed my young sons that they can have it when I’m gone.. a good few years yet fingers crossed.