Light Bar

[Pat-Ard]

@AWo Here's a link to their homepage: https://strandseurope.com/categories/automotive-lighting/

My plan is on a roof rail left and right either each a 8" Siberian DR https://strandseurope.com/product/siberia-dr-led-bar-8/ or if they won't fit the rail two 12" Siberia SR https://strandseurope.com/product/siberia-sr-led-bar-12/
Those directly connected to the standard high beam switch as additional high beams.

Between those narrow LEDs maybe a 22" or a 30" Siberia SR https://strandseurope.com/product/siberia-sr-led-bar-22/ as a worklight connected to the EXT2 on the OH panel.

And lastly - if possible - a 22" Siberia Outlaw https://strandseurope.com/product/siberia-sr-led-bar-22/ in the upper part of the front grill connected to the EXT5 on the OH panel.

The LUX diagramms should be on the links...

 

[Jean Mercier]

As I can’t play with my Grenadier yet, but as this forum provides quite some (technical) information about additional gear, I dared to buy some stuff, and play around with it.
I bought on Amazon a set of 8 Deutsch connector for 11 euro. I thought it was European but … Chinese, of course!

You can see videos how these connectors should be mounted for instance the Würth video here.
If you do the mounting correctly, they are waterproof!

My idea is to connect a lamp at the end of the wire.
I don’t have and didn’t buy a (Chinese or) Deutsch terminal crimper. I used ordinary pliers, to bend and flatten the male and female pins on the copper wire. Took me more time, but if you are handy, no problem. If you will do this often, invest in Deutsch pliers!
In the video they speak about 35 mm stripping, I stripped double (75 mm) and did bend the nude copper wire. Because of the diameter of the copper wire.

Be aware that the “male pins” are inside the female housing, and vice versa as @AWo said some posts above. I struggled a little bit with it!

And, next point: it is DC current, so the order of the wires is important.
According to the picture of the Hungarian Gablini (I have a Hungarian daughter in law and a grand-child there and also 3 cousins on my father’s side are half Hungarian) the positive pole is the red wire and the negative the black wire, and this should be respected when you connect accessories to the roof connectors!

Don’t believe this picture on internet (swapped wires! Only if it is AC current you can do this, and even then, there are a few exceptions)!

It should be like this:

Another point to be aware of: keep the wiring as short as possible. My 20 m cable is in fact a bad and dangerous example, too long (but I did it for playing around). Current has to go and come back through the wire, so 40 m distance. This wire has a resistance of 1.75 ohm (surface is 0.4 mm², there is a formula for calculating it, and you can measure it). That means that if I connect a light to my cable that consumes 1A (current), and the other end to my Grenadier roof connectors, I have a voltage drop of almost 2 volt (rounded) from one end of the cable to the other. Therefore, I should only connect a lamp (or something else) that still functions at 10 V (12V – 2V voltage drop!). You can also use a thicker cable: less resistance, less voltage drop.

Questions are welcome, or corrections

PS: this is not rocket science of course! But not everybody likes to mess with electric wires.

 

[AWo]

May I tell you my thoughts and experiences with additional high beam lights and also about the Grenadier and its additional lights....

In general:
Additional high beam lights belong below the hood. The simpel reasons for that are:

1. Light above the windscreen leads to glare. Every single spot on the windscreen becomes an illuminated spot and you loose your scotopic vision. In addition the hood will also increase the glare, independant of its color or if its painted glossy or matt. The best for the driver is to sit in absolutely darkness. That applies especially if your driving fast on tracks.

2. Light above the windscreen makes you almost blind in dusty, foggy or rainy conditions.

3. Light installed not too high above the track leads to a better recognition of ditches and dents you don't want to run into with more that 50 km/h.

Now you can think, great, the Grenadier has additonal high beam lights in the front guard right where I need them. But, the additional high beam lights in the front guard are less powerful then the ones in your main headlight. They are more or less useless and they block you from installing more powerfull lights (as they have a reference number of either 10 or 12.5 wasting a value of 20 or 25 you can't use anymore) while staying legal. They are one rason why you need cooling air entries in the bumper, again, not the best position for air inlets on a 4x4. It would have have been better not to have these lights in the front guard (better cooling and better possibilities for adding lights). In other words, these additional high beams are just there for the visual appearance.

My recommendations (and legal ones at least for countries using UN-ECE regulations like EU countries):
1. If you don't care about legal things, put powerful lights below the hood. Maybe on the bumper. It is the best position.
2. If that is not enough or you will work in front of the car (winch) mount a working light (no UN-ECE "R" mark / "R" = high beam). They must be switched seperately. If you're working in front of the car switch of the car light so you won't be dazzled while looking at the winch (which is near the main headlights). Switch on your working light above the windscreen and you have good and powerful lights above you so you can safely move and act in front of the car (wearing a cap helps also). Hella Black Magic Lightbars for example, are lightbars from small ones up to 1,2 m length, classified as working lights (cheap and good enough to do the job).
3. While driving through very rough terrain, what you do very slow, your scotopic view (especially into the far) is not so important, but it is important to have the area in front and the side of the car flooded with light, switch on your working lights above the windscreen.
4. If you mount high beamlights for faster driving above the windscreen, place them a little bit more to the midddle of the roof, so that the roof edge gives you some shadow on the windscreen and the hood.

Cheers
AWo

 

[AWo]

Regarding the DEUTSCH (and other crimped) plugs.

The most important thing is, that the crimp is done right. Therefore you need the right tool. The crimp presses the strings and deforms them in a manner, that no air is left between them. In addition it brakes the thin corrosive layer copper has. This layer protects the copper but we don't want it where current should flow. The right crimp also makes the crimp itself waterproof (even without a waterproof housing). The last thing is the pull-out-resistance. A correct crimp resists pulling out the cable up to a certain tensile force. If that is not done right, you can end up with a nice fire or damaged cabling. The right crimping is therefore important.

For the DEUTSCH system you need a four-spine-round-crimp (at least that is the German term). These are round contacts for a cross section size from 0,75 to 1,5 qmm (for US guys: AWG 16). There are appropriate tools available.

Please check that you get original products! Especially for the AMP and DEUTSCH system there are many cheap and bad copies in well know market places. Rely on the original stuff from TE Connectivity (for DEUTSCH and AMP) or maybe Amphenol. You can buy complete sets from HELLA, HERTH-BUSS, Würth, etc. Very good tools and material are available from Knipex, Klauke, Hazet, Würth, etc.

German speaking people can read my article about that here: https://matsch-und-piste.de/elektrik-im-auto-richtig-crimpen/ . All other can have fun with the pictures ;-) A DEUTSCH crimp is shown there.

Cheers
AWo

 

[CountyV8]

Regarding the DEUTSCH (and other crimped) plugs.

The most important thing is, that the crimp is done right. Therefore you need the right tool. The crimp presses the strings and deforms them in a manner, that no air is left between them. In addition it brakes the thin corrosive layer copper has. This layer protects the copper but we don't want it where current should flow. The right crimp also makes the crimp itself waterproof (even without a waterproof housing). The last thing is the pull-out-resistance. A correct crimp resists pulling out the cable up to a certain tensile force. If that is not done right, you can end up with a nice fire or damaged cabling. The right crimping is therefore important.

For the DEUTSCH system you need a four-spine-round-crimp (at least that is the German term). These are round contacts for a cross section size from 0,75 to 1,5 qmm (for US guys: AWG 16). There are appropriate tools available.

Please check that you get original products! Especially for the AMP and DEUTSCH system there are many cheap and bad copies in well know market places. Rely on the original stuff from TE Connectivity (for DEUTSCH and AMP) or maybe Amphenol. You can buy complete sets from HELLA, HERTH-BUSS, Würth, etc. Very good tools and material are available from Knipex, Klauke, Hazet, Würth, etc.

German speaking people can read my article about that here: https://matsch-und-piste.de/elektrik-im-auto-richtig-crimpen/ . All other can have fun with the pictures ;-) A DEUTSCH crimp is shown there.

Cheers
AWo

Translates perfectly with Google translate good resource.

 

[AWo]

Translates perfectly with Google translate good resource.

You talk about my article or the post here?

AWo

 

[emax]

Very good tools and material are available from Knipex, Klauke, Hazet, Würth, etc.

Klauke. My choice. Excellent.

 

[CountyV8]

You talk about my article or the post here?

AWo

No your article love your posts here full of good information.

 

[AWo]

However, regarding electrical terminals, even if you use high end brands, like Klauke or Knipex, there is alwys a risk to get more or less bad material. That stuff is almost always produced in China and if the specifications of the metal for the terminals changes slightly, you get a different crimping result. And no one knows about the change. Of course, often this changes are within tolerable limits. But if you go to cheap material, these limits are very often exceeded and you can get really bad results.

Cheers
AWo

 

[MrMike]

May I tell you my thoughts and experiences with additional high beam lights and also about the Grenadier and its additional lights....

In general:
Additional high beam lights belong below the hood. The simpel reasons for that are:

1. Light above the windscreen leads to glare. Every single spot on the windscreen becomes an illuminated spot and you loose your scotopic vision. In addition the hood will also increase the glare, independant of its color or if its painted glossy or matt. The best for the driver is to sit in absolutely darkness. That applies especially if your driving fast on tracks.

2. Light above the windscreen makes you almost blind in dusty, foggy or rainy conditions.

3. Light installed not too high above the track leads to a better recognition of ditches and dents you don't want to run into with more that 50 km/h.

Now you can think, great, the Grenadier has additonal high beam lights in the front guard right where I need them. But, the additional high beam lights in the front guard are less powerful then the ones in your main headlight. They are more or less useless and they block you from installing more powerfull lights (as they have a reference number of either 10 or 12.5 wasting a value of 20 or 25 you can't use anymore) while staying legal. They are one rason why you need cooling air entries in the bumper, again, not the best position for air inlets on a 4x4. It would have have been better not to have these lights in the front guard (better cooling and better possibilities for adding lights). In other words, these additional high beams are just there for the visual appearance.

My recommendations (and legal ones at least for countries using UN-ECE regulations like EU countries):
1. If you don't care about legal things, put powerful lights below the hood. Maybe on the bumper. It is the best position.
2. If that is not enough or you will work in front of the car (winch) mount a working light (no UN-ECE "R" mark / "R" = high beam). They must be switched seperately. If you're working in front of the car switch of the car light so you won't be dazzled while looking at the winch (which is near the main headlights). Switch on your working light above the windscreen and you have good and powerful lights above you so you can safely move and act in front of the car (wearing a cap helps also). Hella Black Magic Lightbars for example, are lightbars from small ones up to 1,2 m length, classified as working lights (cheap and good enough to do the job).
3. While driving through very rough terrain, what you do very slow, your scotopic view (especially into the far) is not so important, but it is important to have the area in front and the side of the car flooded with light, switch on your working lights above the windscreen.
4. If you mount high beamlights for faster driving above the windscreen, place them a little bit more to the midddle of the roof, so that the roof edge gives you some shadow on the windscreen and the hood.

Cheers
AWo

Interesting thoughts on light bars above the windscreen, I have always run a light bar under or in front of the roof rack, fantastic light ( as long as it's not too white) for spotting wildlife. Rain can be an issue but it is switched independently, glare is a non issue, even with my previous silver bonneted LC 105.

 

[AWo]

Interesting thoughts on light bars above the windscreen, I have always run a light bar under or in front of the roof rack, fantastic light ( as long as it's not too white) for spotting wildlife. Rain can be an issue but it is switched independently, glare is a non issue, even with my previous silver bonneted LC 105.

Looking at your picture I see that this lightbar is located far enough behind the roof edge to keep the windscreen and hood in the shadow. As soon as you drive in a platoon on dusty roads, you'll see what I mean (except your the first car) even if your lights are set back that far. Check Dakar racing vehicles and where they place their lights and when they use them...

BTW, sometimes Light bars under roof racks cause wind noise. Front Runner for example offers wind shields to mitigate these noises.

Cheers
AWo

 

[Inez]

Looking at your picture I see that this lightbar is located far enough behind the roof edge to keep the windscreen and hood in the shadow. As soon as you drive in a platoon on dusty roads, you'll see what I mean (except your the first car) even if your lights are set back that far. Check Dakar racing vehicles and where they place their lights and when they use them...

BTW, sometimes Light bars under roof racks cause wind noise. Front Runner for example offers wind shields to mitigate these noises.

Cheers
AWo

AWo,
What are your thoughts on simply upgrading/replacing the existing lights?

 

[Deleted User Account.]

A bit, but it depends on brand and fitment etc. Sure, you can buy a cheap Chinese lightbar for £100 and install it yourself, but that's probably not going to look great in a year, and wont perform like a premium brand.

A 40" Rigid Industries radiance (entry level Rigid model) lightbar in the UK is about £550 give or take. Add to that a couple hours labour for shop fitment, wiring loom, mounting brackets.... you're pretty much there.

I don't know what brand INEOS have gone with, but if its any of the top premium brands then that's fair money for an OEM to charge. If its a no name cheapo, then yeah its a rip-off.

For reference I had a range of Rigid products on my Jeep for years, they gave great performance, easy fitment, held up to UK winters for 9 years without any corrosion. Id pay the money for them in a heartbeat. In fact I retained my 9 year old Rigid Duallys when I sold the Jeep, and may fit them as work lights to the Grenadier, they look like new.

I wont be speccing the lightbar on my grenadier, as id like to fit something myself down the line.

I use and like rigid lights for the same reasons, but no way would I pay a shop to install them.

 

[MrMike]

Looking at your picture I see that this lightbar is located far enough behind the roof edge to keep the windscreen and hood in the shadow. As soon as you drive in a platoon on dusty roads, you'll see what I mean (except your the first car) even if your lights are set back that far. Check Dakar racing vehicles and where they place their lights and when they use them...

BTW, sometimes Light bars under roof racks cause wind noise. Front Runner for example offers wind shields to mitigate these noises.

Cheers
AWo

My previous LC 105 light bar was further forward and shone on the bonnet (silver colour). I'm speaking from experience when I say that its a non issue Wind noise is negligible considering the roof rack puts out

 

[AWo]

AWo,
What are your thoughts on simply upgrading/replacing the existing lights?

Which ones?

Cheers
AWo

 

[AWo]

I'm speaking from experience when I say that its a non issue

Depends on speed an conditions. When I drive my way home on tarmac that is not an issue. It is also not a real issue when I go slow through a forest. My lights are at the stupiest place possible, In front of the windscreen at the top (I'm a fashion victim!). I drive 100 km/h, no problem, even with my bonnet shining bright, then. And even ontarmac your abilkity to look far ahead is limited. Looking far ahead also means you can drive faster.

You can see how the bonnet reflects the light

But when you drive for long hours and even not so long hours and on a rought dirt tracks you need to be able to see far and you need to look out for ditches, dents and rocks because you're 80 or 90 km/h fast or you're on a washboard road where the car looses grip, then you will appreciate having no disturbing light anywhere but just on the track, as you need to see everything and you need to be concentrated.

That is my experience from driving night Trophys in the Netherlands (at that time I hadn't had LED lights, only Halogen), and desert track driving in Albania (here with an Isuzu D-MAX), North Africa and Island while traveling

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HszwKj7AVK4

View: https://youtu.be/U-NRbVn_roI


However, what is also important is....don't just think about your front lights. When you ever have to reverse on wet grass or mud maybe on uneven, non level ground you'll be very happy to have very good light performance behind the car, as well.

Cheers
AWo

 

[Deleted User Account.]

I

Depends on speed an conditions. When I drive my way home on tarmac that is not an issue. It is also not a real issue when I go slow through a forest. My lights are at the stupiest place possible, In front of the windscreen at the top (I'm a fashion victim!). I drive 100 km/h, no problem, even with my bonnet shining bright, then. And even ontarmac your abilkity to look far ahead is limited. Looking far ahead also means you can drive faster.

You can see how the bonnet reflects the light

View attachment 7804857

View attachment 7804858

View attachment 7804859

View attachment 7804860

View attachment 7804861

But when you drive for long hours 8and even not so long hours) and on a rought dirt track you need to be able to see far and you need to look out for ditches, dents and rocks because you're 80 or 90 km/h fast or you're on a washboard road where the car looses grip, then you will appreciate having no disturbing light anywhere but just on the track, as you need to see evrything and you need to be concentrated.

That is my experience from driving night Trophys in the Netherlands (at that time I hadn't had LED lights, only Halogen), and desert track driving in Albania (here with an Isuzu D-MAX), North Africa and Island while traveling

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HszwKj7AVK4

View: https://youtu.be/U-NRbVn_roI


However, what is also important is....don't just thinkabout your front lights. When you ever have to reverse on wet grass or mud maybe on uneven, non even ground you'll be very happy to have very good light performnce behind the car, as well.

Cheers
AWo

I have two rigid fog lights in my rear bumper and can't recommend rear lights enough. Like backing up in the day time. Wonderful for hitching up in the dark and parking. Just need to wire them to a switch so I can flash tailgaters.

 

[Deleted User Account.]

I

I have two rigid fog lights in my rear bumper and can't recommend rear lights enough. Like backing up in the day time. Wonderful for hitching up in the dark and parking. Just need to wire them to a switch so I can flash tailgaters.

 

[MrMike]

Depends on speed an conditions. When I drive my way home on tarmac that is not an issue. It is also not a real issue when I go slow through a forest. My lights are at the stupiest place possible, In front of the windscreen at the top (I'm a fashion victim!). I drive 100 km/h, no problem, even with my bonnet shining bright, then. And even ontarmac your abilkity to look far ahead is limited. Looking far ahead also means you can drive faster.

You can see how the bonnet reflects the light

View attachment 7804857

View attachment 7804858

View attachment 7804859

View attachment 7804860

View attachment 7804861

But when you drive for long hours and even not so long hours and on a rought dirt tracks you need to be able to see far and you need to look out for ditches, dents and rocks because you're 80 or 90 km/h fast or you're on a washboard road where the car looses grip, then you will appreciate having no disturbing light anywhere but just on the track, as you need to see everything and you need to be concentrated.

That is my experience from driving night Trophys in the Netherlands (at that time I hadn't had LED lights, only Halogen), and desert track driving in Albania (here with an Isuzu D-MAX), North Africa and Island while traveling

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HszwKj7AVK4

View: https://youtu.be/U-NRbVn_roI


However, what is also important is....don't just think about your front lights. When you ever have to reverse on wet grass or mud maybe on uneven, non level ground you'll be very happy to have very good light performance behind the car, as well.

Cheers
AWo

Interesting, I never had an issue with LED light bars on the bonnet, I suppose it's a personal thing. We generally don't do a lot of long night driving anymore due to being on the road and in reality there isn't a lot of need for it if we've planned the trip properly. Around home I use it more as the roads aren't lit very well and skippy is always about

 

[AWo]

Yes..we...but if you're living in the North of Sweden or Island you definitely have to deal with this....

Cheers
AWo