Largest Functional Tire Without Mods

[ADVAW8S]

I believe that is our very own paachi who made the video

 

[stickshifter]

I think a "33-inch" spare will fit. If that is a stock-size BFG KO2 (265/70/R17) in the video - and let's assume it is - then it is 31.7 inches in diameter.

All subsequent tire measurements are for BFG KO2 on 17-inch wheels:

285/70/R17 is 32.7 inches in diameter; one inch taller means the spare tire will just be a half inch wider (on either side), and there certainly looks like there is a half inch of extra clearance between the stock spare and the small rear door.

I would guess that the following sizes will also fit:
295/70/R17 (33.3 inches in diameter)
305/65/R17 (32.6 inches in diameter)
33 x 12.5 R17 (32.5 inches in diameter)

Based on what I see in the video, I don't think a "35 inch tire" will fit:
35 x 12.5 R17 is 34.5 inches in diameter. This is about 3 inches taller than the stock tire - requiring an extra 1.5 inches of clearance.

Paachi - if that was your video - thanks for posting! Any thoughts on the spare tire?

Of course, we still don't know how larger tires will run underneath the Grenadier. Some vehicles (e.g. 3rd gen Toyota Tacoma) have very little extra room for bigger rubber, and even a small increase in tire-size can result in rubbing. Other vehicles (e.g. 2018+ Jeep Wrangler / Gladiator) are designed to readily accommodate larger tires.

Source for tire sizes: https://tiresize.com/tires/BFGoodrich/All-Terrain-TA-KO2.htm

 

[Ferrugenfish]

Crossing my fingers for Ineos changing the spare tire bracket position (and strength if needed) to accomdate at least up to true 33" tires without modification... and that I can fit 33's without rubbing... 35's ideal.  Shorter final gear ratio and putting the diesel transmission in the petrol rig while I'm wishing lol. 

 

[CountyV8]

Loos like they can get 35 duratracks in there, still from SA video. Bigger. wheel arches too.
 

 

[AZGrenadier]

2 fingers has got to be well over an inch, probably closer to 1 1/2 inches.  Assuming those are stock,  33s shouldn’t be any issues. New 35s would be tight but I’ll bet a worn 35 wouldn’t me a problem at all. 

 

[Paachi]

Hi @stickshifter @ADVAW8S, thanks, yes that was my video. Shot in a bit of hurry back in January when Ineos toured with the Grenadier in my town. 
The demo vehicle was on 265/70/R17 = 31.6” tires (if my memory serves me right). When I looked at the wheel wells it looked like a 33” would fit easily with no mods (the Ineos guys there also agreed). A 35” would fit with minimal lift, maybe 2” lift at most. The spare like you called out will be trickier. 
A 33” will fit easily because it will need only 0.75” of clearance on the smaller door side. A 35” I felt was barely possible (maybe I was being optimistic). Many 35” tires are 34” and change. Realistically I think a 34.6-34.8” tire should fit. 
My bigger concern is the weight on the tire carrying door. Especially traveling over corrugations door mounted mechanisms are prone to break eventually. A 35 weights significantly more than the stock 31.6 or even a 33

 

[Paachi]

A few more thoughts. I was looking at this link (https://tiresize.com/tires/BFGoodrich/All-Terrain-TA-KO2.htm) to see true diameter and weights of different sizes. Based on this I think a 35” (true 34.5”) BFG KO2 tire should fit the spare tire location.  I checked the specs of the BFG KM3s as well for the 315 and true 35” sizes and the diameters are same as the equivalent KO2s

LT 265/70R17/121/118S E RWL; Dia: 31.6”/ Wt: 53.4lbs
LT 285/70R17/121/118R E RWL; Dia: 32.7”/ Wt: 57.9lbs
LT 315/70R17/121/118S E BSW; Dia: 34.4”/ Wt: 62.4lbs


LT 33X12.50R17/120S E BSW; Dia: 32.5”/ Wt: 61.2lbs


LT 35X12.50R17/121R E RWL; Dia: 34.5”/ Wt: 66.5lbs


Another trick that we could employ is putting some spacers on the mounting lugs for the spare tire. That way the tire gets pushed out a bit and the door might clear because the swinging arc of the door will be at the point of the curved face of the tire and not the flat face. 



Additionally, I think we will need larger fender flares for 35” tires because of the ~12.5” contact patch. The 35” will stick out of the normal fender flares. Even Ineos has larger fender flares in their SA prototypes which had 35” tires fitted. However, there is no option in the spec sheet to buy a larger fender flare ala-carte

 

[stickshifter]

[QUOTE username=Paachi userid=8372535 postid=1332883416]Hi @stickshifter @ADVAW8S, thanks, yes that was my video. Shot in a bit of hurry back in January when Ineos toured with the Grenadier in my town. The demo vehicle was on 265/70/R17 = 31.6” tires (if my memory serves me right). When I looked at the wheel wells it looked like a 33” would fit easily with no mods (the Ineos guys there also agreed). A 35” would fit with minimal lift, maybe 2” lift at most. The spare like you called out will be trickier. A 33” will fit easily because it will need only 0.75” of clearance on the smaller door side. A 35” I felt was barely possible (maybe I was being optimistic). Many 35” tires are 34” and change. Realistically I think a 34.6-34.8” tire should fit. My bigger concern is the weight on the tire carrying door. Especially traveling over corrugations door mounted mechanisms are prone to break eventually. A 35 weights significantly more than the stock 31.6 or even a 33

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, weight on the door will likely be a problem unless (a) Ineos provides an upgrade for the tire carrier, (b) the aftermarket provides such an upgrade, or (c) the aftermarket develops a bumper-mounted swing-out tire carrier (maybe also requiring a new bumper). This is just one of the reasons it is great when a manufacturer offers larger tires from the factory. Jeep offers 35-inch tires from the factory on the Wrangler and Gladiator; Ford offers 35-inch tires on the Bronco, the F-150 Raptor, and the F-250 Tremor - and now Ford is offering 37-inch tires on the Bronco Raptor, and the F-150 Raptor.

When you get larger tires from the factory you get:

(1) Appropriate gears for the tire-size. This is a big deal. Failing to re-gear after moving to significantly larger tires robs you of power. Most people who re-gear take it to a shop (I know some folks on here will do it themselves, but most folks pay a professional) - and the job will run between $1,200-$2,000. There is a chance that the gears are not set properly. Once the new gears are successfully installed, you have to break-in them in - which can be inconvenient. Lastly, re-gearing in the aftermarket might void your power-train warranty (varies by manufacturer).

(2) The manufacturer will not sell you tires from the factory that rub. Larger tires can rub on various parts of the suspension, or on the body and frame. You hear people saying "Aww, just do some trimming on that fender wall or frame" - but trimming can create new problems like introducing water/mud/salt to places that were previously sealed.

(3) The manufacturer will provide a means to carry a full-size spare.

I know that Ineos is not trying to build a rock-crawler - that is not the goal of the designers of the Grenadier. But if Ineos wants the Grenadier to be competitive in the American market, I think they should consider offering an off-road package that includes larger tires, proper gearing, and a means to carry a full-size spare. In many of the videos, the Grenadier looks a bit "under-tired" or "low-slung" for the rocky trails around here. Ground clearance is listed as 10.4 inches, but I'm not sure how they are measuring that.

 

[CountyV8]

The rear door seems to babe reinforced 
 

[QUOTE username=Paachi userid=8372535 postid=1332883705]A few more thoughts. I was looking at this link (https://tiresize.com/tires/BFGoodrich/All-Terrain-TA-KO2.htm) to see true diameter and weights of different sizes. Based on this I think a 35” (true 34.5”) BFG KO2 tire should fit the spare tire location.  I checked the specs of the BFG KM3s as well for the 315 and true 35” sizes and the diameters are same as the equivalent KO2s

LT 265/70R17/121/118S E RWL; Dia: 31.6”/ Wt: 53.4lbs
LT 285/70R17/121/118R E RWL; Dia: 32.7”/ Wt: 57.9lbs
LT 315/70R17/121/118S E BSW; Dia: 34.4”/ Wt: 62.4lbs


LT 33X12.50R17/120S E BSW; Dia: 32.5”/ Wt: 61.2lbs


LT 35X12.50R17/121R E RWL; Dia: 34.5”/ Wt: 66.5lbs


Another trick that we could employ is putting some spacers on the mounting lugs for the spare tire. That way the tire gets pushed out a bit and the door might clear because the swinging arc of the door will be at the point of the curved face of the tire and not the flat face. 



Additionally, I think we will need larger fender flares for 35” tires because of the ~12.5” contact patch. The 35” will stick out of the normal fender flares. Even Ineos has larger fender flares in their SA prototypes which had 35” tires fitted. However, there is no option in the spec sheet to buy a larger fender flare ala-carte[/QUOTE]

 

[emax]

That's a crazy reinforcement.

I think the hinges might be the bottleneck.

 

[NoGaBiker]

[QUOTE username=Paachi userid=8372535 postid=1332883705]Additionally, I think we will need larger fender flares for 35” tires because of the ~12.5” contact patch. The 35” will stick out of the normal fender flares. Even Ineos has larger fender flares in their SA prototypes which had 35” tires fitted. However, there is no option in the spec sheet to buy a larger fender flare ala-carte[/QUOTE]

I never liked the 12.5" width all 35s seem to come with so I was delighted when Kenda released a very good 35x10.5x17, the RT601. I put a set on my Wrangler for street use and found it to be a fine tire. Yeah, that's only one (and I don't know of another that's been released yet) but at least there's one. Pics:

 

In fact, I also found 37s in an offroad formula (bias ply) that were fantastic off-road, particularly on slickrock, and only 11" wide: Interco Super Swampers in Q78-16. Unfortunately, that's the only size they make, but I just bought some 16" wheels for them and they worked great for many SE Utah trips.

 

 

 

[NoGaBiker]

[QUOTE username=stickshifter userid=8617054 postid=1332891352]


I know that Ineos is not trying to build a rock-crawler - that is not the goal of the designers of the Grenadier. 
[/QUOTE]

You make some fine points, but it all comes down to your last paragraph. I don't think Ineos is trying to sell Wrangler/Bronco levels of trucks in the US -- they can't build them in that quantity. And a big-tired Series or old Defender doesn't look right anyway, especially a wide-tired one. I think they'll sell all of them (worldwide) they can build in the near-term and no doubt have weighed the compromises required to fit 35s and decided the payoff in ability isn't worth what must be given up in on-road refinement and ride-quality.

 

[stickshifter]

I'm with you on the narrow tires. I think narrow tires are undervalued. When you air tires down, the footprint gets longer, and provides extra traction. The extra contact patch comes from the longer footprint, not a wider footprint. Wide tires have their place for sure: extreme rock climbing, true off-road driving in deep snow, drag-racing. But narrow tires have some important advantages: narrow tires do better in the snow on-road; depending on the depth of the mud you are in, narrow tires might dig down to solid ground better; and narrow tires have less mass, so when you go to a taller - but narrow tire - the negative impact to acceleration, braking, and fuel mileage is not as bad as if you go to a taller and wider tire.

P.S. nice pics!

 

[Paachi]

[QUOTE username=CountyV8 userid=8620645 postid=1332891664]The rear door seems to babe reinforced 
 

[/QUOTE]

Thats some crazy reinforcing. My G Wagens door bracing is pretty shite compared to that. Good find @CountyV8. Like emax mentioned I think the achilles heel might be the hinges. That can be remedied more easily..but then I am curious whats the reinforcement of the mount point of the hinges inside the body. Its a chain reaction and the overall setup is only as good as the weakest link. However, seeing the door bracing gives me confidence that they have thought about this.

 

[Paachi]

Concur on the narrow tires. I've never been a fan of the over tired look. Sure it looks 'butch' but the penalties on driveline, drag, weight, fuel consumption, acceleration everything compounds.

For me 285 section and a 33" is the sweet spot. wide enough and narrow enough. Mind you I am running 265s and it works great in every scenario I've thrown at it. I am not a hardcore offroader..more like to discover remote locations..but I've crawled rocks, done snow, mild water crossing, desert running with them. As long as you are aired down its all good.

 

[stickshifter]

[QUOTE username=NoGaBiker userid=8980684 postid=1332891958]

You make some fine points, but it all comes down to your last paragraph. I don't think Ineos is trying to sell Wrangler/Bronco levels of trucks in the US -- they can't build them in that quantity. And a big-tired Series or old Defender doesn't look right anyway, especially a wide-tired one. I think they'll sell all of them (worldwide) they can build in the near-term and no doubt have weighed the compromises required to fit 35s and decided the payoff in ability isn't worth what must be given up in on-road refinement and ride-quality.[/QUOTE]

I hope you are right about the IG selling well here. If it does, I would guess that Ineos might sell the rights to BMW eventually - unless they plan on staying in the car business. This would give BMW a vehicle in a niche in which they don’t currently compete, and - with good sales history - it would be risk free for BMW (development and introduction completed and financed by Ineos). It would give consumers a more traditional sales and service model (which may be a good thing… we will see how it goes for Ineos). I thought this piece about the Grenadier in the American market was sensible; however, it does suggest that the Grenadier will compete against the Wrangler and Bronco:

https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/ineos-grenadier-adventure-4x4/

 

[RoadBuilder]

These are pictures of the rear door hinges that I took at a 2B Event. The spare tire bracket looked like it was made of cast iron, rather than stamped steel. I was unable to get a good picture of the bracket, but it looked very robust.

 

[Paulo22]

Hi
35" tyres will be suitablle for grenadier?
THKs

 

[Paachi]

Hi @Paulo22 this topic has been discussed at length here in the forum. A short search should hopefully yield some more fodder for you.
Summarily, its a strict maybe. As we don’t have have a production version or any clear official stance from Ineos, we are speculating. The South African version driven by Sir Jim was shown in videos with 35s on. Based on my visual estimation while seeing the prototype in person, I think 35s should go on with a minor

 

[stickshifter]

While a 2-inch lift is usually no problem with a solid-axle vehicle, it appears that the upper and lower control arms on the Grenadier are quite short. This might result in disadvantageous suspension geometry even with a 2-inch lift. We really don't know yet, but this should be a consideration: long-arm kits take a lot of research & development, and are also a costly modification to make to a vehicle. It is unlikely that the aftermarket will produce a long-arm kit for the Grenadier for quite some time (if ever).

Related example: the Jeep JK came with relatively short control arms - but they are longer than the Grenadier's (based on photos and videos - so there is no good way of verifying that). As a consequence of the short control arms, lifting over 3 inches often produced negative driving characteristics. Some lifts came with geometry-correcting brackets, and while these improved the suspension, these brackets were a bit low-hanging, and often got bashed in the rocks. The best solution was a long-arm kit, but these were expensive and involved a lot of work. Jeep addressed this issue with the JL (new in 2018), which comes with what many call "mid-arms" (i.e. longer than the JK short arms, but not quite as long as the after-market "long-arm kits"). Long-arm kits for the JL are rare, and are mostly used by people running 40-inch tires.

At this point, I don't think we can assume anything about running 35s until we get some word on this from Ineos.