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You can still get a little solitude in the Colorado mountains. Just back from a ski tour...
The trailhead is out my back door, then a 10 min drive up a snow-covered dirt road. I know that I'm a lucky guy.Jealous
Just to be clear… it is a rigid axle front and rear with high sidewall tyres. From the test drive I did I found the progressive springs excellent but the reality is that an independent suspension, if only on the front, will routinely outperform a rigid suspension when cornering. The Grenadier will carry more weight all over but particularly up top, I would expect a higher roll centre than either of those vehicles. This may not predict driving limits, but it should be expected to assert itself in driver feel (reluctance to change direction through to wallowing with 40L of water/fuel on the roof). Not sure if you’ve driven a W461 G-Wagen or pre-L663 Defenders but I’d expect on-road dynamic performance/agility to not be a mile apart. This will only be further exascerbated when loaded up with bar work from muzzle to butt.I agree with your overall sentiment, but to me, knowing that the top speed is 100 mph just isn't relevant, as I don't think it is really an indication of on-road performance. I will never drive a vehicle like the Grenadier at 100 mph, and knowing what the top speed is doesn't tell me how well it does things that do matter to me, like (1) how does it handle on winding roads and taking corners? (I'm not looking for sports car performance, or even for SUV performance, but I'd like something better than my old Jeep JK Rubicon), (2) how does it accelerate from 20 to 65? (coming off an on-ramp merging with highway traffic), (3) how does it accelerate from 65 to 80 while driving uphill at 10,000 feet above sea level? (in order to safely pass a freight truck on a mountain pass), or (4) how does it accelerate from 3 to 30 while going up a very steep grade through a series of hairpin switchbacks?
I regularly encounter all these driving scenarios, and I am laser-focused on ensuring that my next vehicle can handle these situations well (in addition to having off-road chops, decent payload, etc.). Again - I'm not looking for sports car performance - I just want something that is better on-road than a Jeep or a Tacoma. My current vehicle is a 2017 Tacoma, which I bought thinking it would be a decent all-purpose vehicle for me. I bought it to replace an aging Jeep JK and an Audi S4 that was starting to require regular post-warranty maintenance; in addition, I was tired of having two specialized vehicles - I wanted one that could be more of an "all-around" vehicle. Lastly, the Tacoma was just about my only choice because I wanted a manual transmission (at the time, that was a non-negotiable criteria). Sadly, my commitment to the manual gearbox left me with a vehicle that lacks low-end torque, and while the Tacoma runs great (for a truck) through the corners on winding canyon roads (especially after a suspension upgrade), I have not been happy with it in all the acceleration examples I listed above. I find it a chore to drive under these conditions. I used to drive 3-4 hours through the mountains in the Audi and feel fresh at the end, but the same drive in the Tacoma and I'm exhausted (its not loud or bumpy, its just a lack of low-end power).
So that's where I'm coming from when I talk about on-road performance. I understand that other folk may not be looking for the same driving dynamics in a rugged solid-axle off-roader - we've all got different end-uses in mind!
I fully agree if I want performance and handling I take the wife's Fiat 124 spider, and leave my LR at home.Just to be clear… it is a rigid axle front and rear with high sidewall tyres. From the test drive I did I found the progressive springs excellent but the reality is that an independent suspension, if only on the front, will routinely outperform a rigid suspension when cornering. The Grenadier will carry more weight all over but particularly up top, I would expect a higher roll centre than either of those vehicles. This may not predict driving limits, but it should be expected to assert itself in driver feel (reluctance to change direction through to wallowing with 40L of water/fuel on the roof). Not sure if you’ve driven a W461 G-Wagen or pre-L663 Defenders but I’d expect on-road dynamic performance/agility to not be a mile apart. This will only be further exascerbated when loaded up with bar work from muzzle to butt.
So, in short not so much what one is ‘looking for’, but what is a realistic expectation noting the basic reality of 3.5 tonnes, heavy axles, differentials and wheels held parallel.
I’m anticipating a better ride than my old 2dr JK, but only due to the longer wheelbase.
Whatever magic the (very accomplished) engineers at Magna can cook up to hide the weight will be a bonus.
Yes, I am quite familiar with solid-front axle vehicles that run high sidewall tires. These are the ones I have owned, all with manual transmissions and a manual lever for the transfer case:Just to be clear… it is a rigid axle front and rear with high sidewall tyres. From the test drive I did I found the progressive springs excellent but the reality is that an independent suspension, if only on the front, will routinely outperform a rigid suspension when cornering. The Grenadier will carry more weight all over but particularly up top, I would expect a higher roll centre than either of those vehicles. This may not predict driving limits, but it should be expected to assert itself in driver feel (reluctance to change direction through to wallowing with 40L of water/fuel on the roof). Not sure if you’ve driven a W461 G-Wagen or pre-L663 Defenders but I’d expect on-road dynamic performance/agility to not be a mile apart. This will only be further exascerbated when loaded up with bar work from muzzle to butt.
So, in short not so much what one is ‘looking for’, but what is a realistic expectation noting the basic reality of 3.5 tonnes, heavy axles, differentials and wheels held parallel.
I’m anticipating a better ride than my old 2dr JK, but only due to the longer wheelbase.
Whatever magic the (very accomplished) engineers at Magna can cook up to hide the weight will be a bonus.
Looks like he's already nursing pain from that left foot restThis seems to be giving off the vibe (as far as any photo possibly can do) that it's a comfortable place to be, cruising along at a very indecent speed (for the UK):
View attachment 7798839
On what do you notice that? To me this seems quite normal when I am cruising.. I’ve got sometimes one hand or the other on leg no matter if LHD or RHD vehicle.Looks like he's already nursing pain from that left foot rest
On what do you notice that? To me this seems quite normal when I am cruising.. I’ve got sometimes one hand or the other on leg no matter if LHD or RHD vehicle.
Also if the footrest is indeed an issue the professional test drivers would have complained to engineers for sure.
Yeah, I totally get that. I'm looking forward to seeing what it means to be "a much improved and modernized classical Defender"!@stickshifter
If you assess your expectations of the Grenadier against its origins, perhaps some things will become clearer.
Sir Jim wanted to continue building the Defender, but JLR refused. So he built one himself.
And the Grenadier became way better than the original in every respect, but in the end it never left the conceptual framework.
And there was never any talk of anything different or more than that.
So the simple question from my point of view is: Would a much improved and modernised classical Defender be what I want?
If yes: perfect, I'll get something even better than that.
If no: then I probably won't be happy with the Grenadier.
That’s exactly what I want. Maybe with better speakers. But that’s what I want.@stickshifter
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So the simple question from my point of view is: Would a much improved and modernised classical Defender be what I want?
Again, I'm with you stick. Videos too short, too fast.
Slick editing, slim content.
They could show more but choose not to.
TikTok Nation, IDK.
It is the same transmission in all Grenadiers, the ZF8.Very interesting, and not beating a dead horse (but then again, I'm day one here). I wonder why not just use the same transmission for all vehicles rather than have two different models? Seems like economy of scale, only having to have parts or whatever for one transmission would save effort n manufacturing. Or maybe just grabbing a transmission from stack A vs stack B is irrelevant.
There are many variants of the ZF 8-speed automatic transmission. The Grenadier gets two different versions - depending on which engine you are running.It is the same transmission in all Grenadiers, the ZF8.
I like it. Its cool that we get to see a still photo of the Grenadier going 84 mph down the highway. But it would be even better if this was a video, and they showed us some more detail, like engine RPM, engine noise, cabin noise (for example, The Fast Lane Truck (TFL) measures sound with a decibel meter in all their towing videos). I mean, why not make it a 2-minute video? Sure, its not going to be an earth-shattering video, no one's life is going to be suddenly changed, but what the hell - just post a quick video of the Grenadier on the highway. It would be easy, and why not?This seems to be giving off the vibe (as far as any photo possibly can do) that it's a comfortable place to be, cruising along at a very indecent speed (for the UK):
View attachment 7798839
I haven’t checked but I wonder if they get the transmission and engine already mated from BMWVery interesting, and not beating a dead horse (but then again, I'm day one here). I wonder why not just use the same transmission for all vehicles rather than have two different models? Seems like economy of scale, only having to have parts or whatever for one transmission would save effort n manufacturing. Or maybe just grabbing a transmission from stack A vs stack B is irrelevant.