Ineos forced to shut down production on supplier issue

Media starting to break that production of the IG is going to be paused until 2025 due to financial troubles at one of its suppliers.

The UK dealers were just told and mine told me today but I didn't post anything until I saw it starting to appear in the media. I cant see behind the paywall but I wonder if this is recaro?

 

[DoubleDoom]

Tend to agree. My chassis number is mid 4000’s and was built June 23. Gut feel is that 20k won’t be too far wrong unless Ineos are not building sequentially numbered vehicles.

We know from the VINs posted that its over 22,500 built now. That doesnt equate to sales though (stock, gifts, loaners, pre-production etc).

 

[AWo]

I read this 20,000 car statement again from TopGear....if the Ineos guy claims overall, so 2023 and 2024, I belive that, yes. Maybe I missed that point, mea culpa.
I had first the impression it is only about 2024. If that is the case, then I do not believe the number.

AWo

 

[Tx246]

Keep in mind Ineos is taking delivery of vehicles for their chemical business and putting these into use, or at least that was told to me by Ineos Auto USA previously. I don't think any of these would be high visibility units at this point, so that mught explain some of the disconnect.

I also think Ineos specifically not naming Reacaro is important. They are trying to sort through it without damaging Recaro.

If I was a Recaro material supplier, I would imagine my typical payment for product material contracts would be under review, thus delaying payments. In the US, we typically have Net 30/Net 60/whatever. When a company goes into the bankruptcy system, these contracts get put on hold/renegotiated/etc.... I imagine they are not going to supply materials until an agreement is made between parties.

 

[AWo]

First the Ineos sites were forced to switch to EV's for site traffic just to be replaced by IC vehicles now?

Aha.

AWo

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Keep in mind Ineos is taking delivery of vehicles for their chemical business and putting these into use, or at least that was told to me by Ineos Auto USA previously. I don't think any of these would be high visibility units at this point, so that mught explain some of the disconnect.

I also think Ineos specifically not naming Reacaro is important. They are trying to sort through it without damaging Recaro.

If I was a Recaro material supplier, I would imagine my typical payment for product material contracts would be under review, thus delaying payments. In the US, we typically have Net 30/Net 60/whatever. When a company goes into the bankruptcy system, these contracts get put on hold/renegotiated/etc.... I imagine they are not going to supply materials until an agreement is made between parties.

Yep - they’re going to stretch AP and try to pull forward AR - anything to stabilize cash-flow. And their workers’ council agreements are open for restructuring. Ineos has to be looking at alternatives - but it could be the design is Recaro’s and not theirs, so redesign and testing/certification are complicated.

 

[ecohen2]

I don't get this, why does everyone think Grenadier is going bust, everything I have read says its a vendor problem:

"She said the supplier is responsible for a certain trim component that Ineos' vehicles can't be sold without, and that Ineos is looking for an alternative source for the component.​

​

She added that the current supplier is attempting to turn around its business, but the delay, if no alternative is found, might mean Ineos won't be able to restart production until late this year or even early next year."​

​

Ineos Grenadier production stopped, possibly into 2025

Ineos has halted production due to financial issues at a supplier responsible for a critical trim component.

www.motorauthority.com

​

Ineos is not a dumb or desperate company... Stellantis might be but not Ineos...

 

[Tazzieman]

I don't get this, why does everyone think Grenadier is going bust, everything I have read says its a vendor:

Not everyone thinks Grenadier is going bust. Just a few pessimists , a few miserable haters who will never forgive SJR moving the planned factory to Europe & who revel in any schadenfreude - and the usual lazy and dopey journalists.

 

[ecohen2]

Not everyone thinks Grenadier is going bust. Just a few pessimists , a few miserable haters who will never forgive SJR moving the planned factory to Europe & who revel in any schadenfreude - and the usual lazy and dopey journalists.

Not only is this just a vendor problem, but the plans to expand are still happening. Again, they appear to be doing quite well...

"Ineos is on the verge of launching in China and Mexico, which will grow its list to almost 50 countries. Calder told Automotive News that those launches will still happen."​

 

[landmannnn]

For those concerned about the 1300 employees at Hambach, the workforce have been pit on Chômage Partiel which means they receive 60% of their gross salary.

 

[Dual Grenny Guy]

I have one main issue/concern. First off I am ALL in on Ineos!! So much so I just purchased my 2nd one. I really wanted a Quartermaster to match my Grenadier, but now with the halt and if the USA ever gets the QM there will be that pesky 25% bs “chicken tax” so don’t know if I would of spent that extra money on a truck version. For those wondering, I am a huge car guy and have multiple vehicles and absolutely LOVE this new Grenadier. I read all the negative comments here and there and wonder why that real negative owner still has their Grenadier if they are so miserable just sell it and move on. If you’re upside down and can’t I wish things turn better for you, honestly I do. Everyone should enjoy what they drive.

Ok, on my concern and what I haven’t read anywhere yet surprisenly. Maybe I missed it? We all have read about the halt in production from numerous sources now, but nothing from Ineos other than a quote from an employee/executive. Why hasn’t Ineos themselves but out a formal statement themselves or the owner himself? You have all these new owners, dealerships, not to mention the TON of aftermarket companies (and there are many of them) that have come along to produce products for your vehicle, yet Ineos has basically kept us all in the dark. Ok so “a trim piece needed for production” is the issue. Why not just be more direct with us and advise what exactly is the issue? Sure you want to protect the company (Recaro like it’s a secret anyway right?!)from what looking bad or being in trouble that only makes it look worse. They are already in trouble if it is Recaro and why we are all in this position. Just state what the issue is exactly and if you have any plans on a back up part (doubt they will say if there are plans to buy Recaro). But more info for us all is needed. Like are parts going to still be produced? We know the entire completed vehicle is on halt, but what about parts and supplies for the Grenadier? I haven’t read anything anywhere about this, which surprises me! Also, are the engineers and tech people halted or are they finally going to be able to work on a software update that will fix our beeps and hvac and other issues? I have been told that the current “software fix” can cause issues with the info center, so the software fix doesn’t look to be soon (only inside info i have). If the entire plant/business is on halt including part production and tech, then I just bought a 2nd vehicle that may turn into either a rare sought after 2 year only produced suv or something no one will want to touch (sales or repairs) in a few years. I am gambling on things to start back up in early 2025, but would really like some answers from Ineos. I think they owe that to us all, don’t y’all?

Ok, sorry for the long read. For all you owners out there that love these things, cheers to ya as I am in that club as well!!

 

[Tx246]

Generally in a bankruptcy situation, assets can be sold off.

If Ineos is the only user for these seats (which really would make sense), why don’t they buy a license to produce them and get some one up and running making them? Maybe that is what is happening, which would also make sense from a timing perspective.

I haven’t thought about after market suppliers taking a breath to see what happens because I probably would. Why keep investing money into design and production if there will never be enough end users to buy it?

I hope others figured out quickly. Even with some of the dumb annoying stuff, I love the Grenadier and think more people will as well once they experience it. It isn’t for everyone, but it damn sure fun and much cooler than a typical SUV offering.

 

[trobex]

The lack of information via Ineos is nothing new. Has been this way since launch.

 

[AWo]

Maybe you missed that....Recaro stated that production will continue and all contracts will be fulfilled. That is not uncommon in such situations when the insolvency administrator takes over. Not only Ineos has an interest in getting their orders done. Insolvency often doesn't mean an immediate stop. (See https://www.theineosforum.com/threa...on-on-supplier-issue.12416655/post-1333299054 ).

This is also backed up by a statement from Recaro itself: https://www.recaro-automotive.com/d...urer-leverages-judicial-restructuring-options (Press release in English: https://www.recaro-automotive.com/e...ges-judicial-restructuring-options?&setLang=1)

One interesting point in that statement is that expected payments were not done by (a) customer(s) of Recaro on time (cash flow). I assume, the customer who hasn't paid their bill will not receive any products from Recaro until the payment is done. It it is not in the interest of this customer to throw Recaro under the bus because that could lead to that Recaro mentions who has not paid the bill....so both are quite.

Another interesting point is the loss of a big order. A guy did some analysis and found that Recaro delivered seats for a whole range of Audi cars, which are going to disappear also on the motorsport side. He found 8 models based on the R8 which will be discontinued and the Porsche 718. He claimed that this are not high volume models, but they disappeared very quick and if other models leave the market these needs to be added. Maybe also high volumes have been lost of not Recaro branded seats for volume manufacturers. Maybe also the Fusilier meant a loss of a development and build order.

Check yourself: https://www.recaro-automotive.com/de/oem

AWo

 

[HereinDaRockies]

Maybe you missed that....Recaro stated that production will continue and all contracts will be fulfilled. That is not uncommon in such situations when the insolvency administrator takes over. Not only Ineos has an interest in getting their order done. Insolvency often doesn't mean an immediate stop. (See https://www.theineosforum.com/threa...on-on-supplier-issue.12416655/post-1333299054 ).

This is also backup up by a statement from Recaro itself: https://www.recaro-automotive.com/d...urer-leverages-judicial-restructuring-options (Press release in English: https://www.recaro-automotive.com/e...ges-judicial-restructuring-options?&setLang=1)

One interesting point in that statement is that expected payments were not done by (a) customer(s) of Recaro on time (cash flow). I assume, the customer who hasn't paid their bill will not receive any products from Recaro until the payment is done. It it is not in the interest of that this customer to throw Recaro under the bus because that could lead to that Recaro mentions who has not paid the bill....so both are quite.

Another interesting point is the loss of a big order. A guy did some analysis and found that Recaro delivered seats for a whole range of Audi cars, which are going to disappear also on the motorsport side. He found 8 models based on the R8 which will be discontinued and the Porsche 718. He claimed that this are not high volume models, but they disappeared very quick and if other models leave the market these needs to be added. Maybe also high volumes have been lost of not Recaro branded seats for volume manufacturers. Maybe also the Fusilier meant a loss of a development and build order.

Check yourself: https://www.recaro-automotive.com/de/oem

AWo

I read the English version. Didn’t see references to payment issues from Recaro customer…

 

[AWo]

Maybe you missed that....Recaro stated that production will continue and all contracts will be fulfilled. That is not uncommon in such situations when the insolvency administrator takes over. Not only Ineos has an interest in getting their orders done. Insolvency often doesn't mean an immediate stop. (See https://www.theineosforum.com/threa...on-on-supplier-issue.12416655/post-1333299054 ).

This is also backed up by a statement from Recaro itself: https://www.recaro-automotive.com/d...urer-leverages-judicial-restructuring-options (Press release in English: https://www.recaro-automotive.com/e...ges-judicial-restructuring-options?&setLang=1)

One interesting point in that statement is that expected payments were not done by (a) customer(s) of Recaro on time (cash flow). I assume, the customer who hasn't paid their bill will not receive any products from Recaro until the payment is done. It it is not in the interest of that this customer to throw Recaro under the bus because that could lead to that Recaro mentions who has not paid the bill....so both are quite.

Another interesting point is the loss of a big order. A guy did some analysis and found that Recaro delivered seats for a whole range of Audi cars, which are going to disappear also on the motorsport side. He found 8 models based on the R8 which will be discontinued and the Porsche 718. He claimed that this are not high volume models, but they disappeared very quick and if other models leave the market these needs to be added. Maybe also high volumes have been lost of not Recaro branded seats for volume manufacturers. Maybe also the Fusilier meant a loss of a development and build order.

Check yourself: https://www.recaro-automotive.com/de/oem

AWo

Oh, you're right. But in the German version. Feel free to use Google website translation or ChatGPT to translate the German version.

AWo

 

[rovie]

Unfortunately, the supplier of the seats has also contributed to the situation. There were signs in insider circles months ago. Ineos is in the process of finding a solution. And they will find it. They will certainly not communicate any information about the current situation until all contracts have been signed. Especially not the so-called specialised press and self-appointed experts.

 

[Dual Grenny Guy]

I do not disagree with any comments made by anyone; HOWEVER, no one has addressed or confirmed that Ineos is still going to manufacture parts during this halt or if the tech/engineers will be working on software updates or if the halt means EVERYTHING is temporarily shut down. That’s a big issue that I can’t seem to find any answer to. If anyone can post a link to comments/quotes from Ineos or an article by anyone on this subject please do (preferably one with English translation if possible, I know a lot of you speak multiple languages which is impressive but I’m not as bright ). I can’t be the only person worried about this. If they aren’t producing parts eventually the parts on hand will run out, depending on how long this halt last, and most of us need software updates…..

 

[Shopkeep]

I do not disagree with any comments made by anyone; HOWEVER, no one has addressed or confirmed that Ineos is still going to manufacture parts during this halt or if the tech/engineers will be working on software updates or if the halt means EVERYTHING is temporarily shut down. That’s a big issue that I can’t seem to find any answer to. If anyone can post a link to comments/quotes from Ineos or an article by anyone on this subject please do (preferably one with English translation if possible, I know a lot of you speak multiple languages which is impressive but I’m not as bright ). I can’t be the only person worried about this. If they aren’t producing parts eventually the parts on hand will run out, depending on how long this halt last, and most of us need software updates…..

Ineos assembles a vehicle from parts made by other Suppliers, they don't make the parts themselves (except for steel & aluminum body stampings). Hence the reason for the shutdown - they don't make the seats they need.

 

[Dual Grenny Guy]

Right I totally get this and like I have said previously, I own TWO of these beautiful rides. I call them the “Lego SUV” to my family/friends when I explain why I purchased them and what they are. I don’t think that most potential suv buyers shopping realize just how many great parts by really great companies have been used on this vehicle. It’s pretty amazing what they have done to be honest. However, I should have worded it better. My bad. Will Ineos still have staff that will get these parts in, label them “Ineos” (maybe I am wrong & someone will point this out, but I don’t think Ineos gets their parts from Eibach/Bilstein/Bosch/Eaton/Tremec etc etc already painted and labeled “Ineos”) and send to the dealers as needed? When I hear a plant is halted and employees are on partial pay, to me this means EVERYTHING is shut down including tech and if no software update coming anytime soon (the one out now has been halted as causes info center shut downs I have been told), then the beeps and other annoying issues will continue for some time now.

 

[Shopkeep]

Right I totally get this and like I have said previously, I own TWO of these beautiful rides. I call them the Lego SUV to family/friends when I explain why I purchased them and what they are. However, I should have worded it better. My bad. Will Ineos still have staff that will get these parts in, label them “Ineos” (maybe I am wrong & someone will point this out, but I don’t think Ineos gets their parts from Eibach/Bilstein/Bosch/Eaton/etc etc already painted and labeled “Ineos”) and send to the dealers as needed? When I hear a plant is halted and employees are on partial pay, to me this means EVERYTHING is shut down including tech and if no software update coming anytime soon (the one out now has been halted as causes info center shut downs I have been told), then the beeps and other annoying issues will continue for some time now.

I don't think Ineos touches the parts until they either hit the production line or their spare parts warehouses. If they need more widgets they place an order with the widget factory who will manufacture to specification, label them as required by Ineos and ship them where Ineos wants them shipped. While the factory workers in Hambach are kicking back at the local pub being paid 60% of their normal income the pick & packers at the spare parts warehouse in Belgium (or Melbourne or Kentucky or where ever they are) are still showing up to work as normal.