Grenadier vs 2024 Land Cruiser

[Fastrunn3r]

No pricing has been released yet on the new 250. You'll get the old shape/model, or be offered the new model for the new price.

Umm. No. I've asked for 2024... and so we're speaking the same language, that is the 250...

 

[MarkH]

Umm. No. I've asked for 2024... and so we're speaking the same language, that is the 250...

So you expect to receive this. Dealers do not know pricing so how can they sign you up for one? I'd be clarifying with the dealer. Sounds like they could give you the current model but delivered in '24.

 

[DaveB]

View attachment 7822942It is a 2024... Word.

PS. I accept in the US, Toyota has said the new Prado will be priced in the US$50,000 range – which converts to just over $83,000 Australian dollars, let's see what happens. Still a hell of a lot cheaper than the Grenadier.

$68K is the base price for the GX so at the moment he has been priced at full list price and as @MarkH says that is on the existing/16 year old model.
In the not so fine print it clearly states " you will get what we give you and you will pay what we tell you" or piss off and we will sell it to someone else.

 

[Fastrunn3r]

So you expect to receive this. Dealers do not know pricing so how can they sign you up for one?

This is hilarious - do you like having the last word?

I have a contract for a 2024 Prado/250 - what do you want me to say?

Go speak to a dealer.

 

[Fastrunn3r]

$68K is the base price for the GX so at the moment he has been priced at full list price and as @MarkH says that is on the existing/16 year old model.
In the not so fine print it clearly states " you will get what we give you and you will pay what we tell you" or piss off and we will sell it to someone else.
View attachment 7822949

No, he hasn't. His contract is for the GXL at $68k. "Primary Producer".

I fully expect the pricing to change, regardless he and I are in the Q for a vehicle significantly less than the Grenadier, which is why I have asked for it to be included in the comparison.

 

[MarkH]

Who's on first?...

 

[DaveB]

This is hilarious - do you like having the last word?

I have a contract for a 2024 Prado/250 - what do you want me to say?

Go speak to a dealer.

I love the fact that you have just had a go at him for wanting to have the last word, by posting a comment as the last word.
We all know that I want to have the last word.
Word

 

[MarkH]

No, he hasn't. His contract is for the GXL at $68k. "Primary Producer".

I fully expect the pricing to change, regardless he and I are in the Q for a vehicle significantly less than the Grenadier, which is why I have asked for it to be included in the comparison.

The comparison is talking about the 250. Read the thread title and first few posts.

 

[Fastrunn3r]

So you expect to receive this. Dealers do not know pricing so how can they sign you up for one? I'd be clarifying with the dealer. Sounds like they could give you the current model but delivered in '24.

No. Doesn't sound like that at all. My contract reflects it is a 24 Prado/250 and I am expecting 15 - 18 month wait:

 

[DaveB]

No, he hasn't. His contract is for the GXL at $68k. "Primary Producer".

I fully expect the pricing to change, regardless he and I are in the Q for a vehicle significantly less than the Grenadier, which is why I have asked for it to be included in the comparison.

Obviously just a co-incidence

 

[Fastrunn3r]

I love the fact that you have just had a go at him for wanting to have the last word, by posting a comment as the last word.
We all know that I want to have the last word.
Word

Word.

 

[Fastrunn3r]

Obviously just a co-incidence

He doesn't pay Registration and it's on a Novated Lease, so no GST. GXL $68k.
As he said, he can get two for one Grenadier.

 

[Fastrunn3r]

The comparison is talking about the 250. Read the thread title and first few posts.

Fair point. I did, and was a little confused, but now see they don't have the 300, will only be getting the 250/Prado.

 

[MarkH]

No. Doesn't sound like that at all. My contract reflects it is a 24 Prado/250 and I am expecting 15 - 18 month wait:View attachment 7822952

Ok, so you'll get the new model, but they will be jamming your price up when new pricing is released. Be ready for 90-95k base pricing. Same thing happening with any 70 series on order. Price can change after contract date.

 

[MarkH]

As he said, he can get two for one Grenadier.

Two of the current model yes.

 

[RunBikeDive]

Mild-hybrid-turbo-4cyl-fail.

You are describing the general process of buying a vehicle.
What are my needs, wants and preferences.
Finance comes into it but if you can afford all of the vehicles on your shortlist then it becomes just a decision point.
If the LC meets your needs then go for it.
It does not mean anything negative just a decision you made for your requirements.
Too many people look at it that if you disagree with me you are saying I am wrong.
No we have just reached different decisions
Either, or both of us, may be wrong or right, or both.
we may be at different stages of our life
You may prefer blondes and i may prefer red heads.
We may discover both our partners dye their hair.

Dave B = Winning

 

[alvan]

Interesting discussion.

I’m wondering how a Poll of owners / confirmed buyers would look like if the following question was asked (and honestly answered):

Would you still buy your Grenadier if you had to pay the current pricing?

Malicious and embarrassing question (not if it even makes sense...) . It is evident that we, the so-called first handraisers, have moved according to a pattern that has not been possible to follow to the end (market, regulations, pandemic, war, etc.). We've already made big strides from our initial price assumptions (40,000 pounds). It is obvious that whoever decides today decides according to a profile that is probably different, but not particularly critical, in a world that sells thousands and thousands of Gs, RRs, etc. Probably starting directly today would have kept me away but certainly more due to the fact that I hadn't experienced the cultural adventure too (which also justified the progressive price increase for me). It is probable that I would have invested part of the amount in a development of the Defender...

 

[255/85]

On the other hand, the Grenadier has a whole bunch of electronics that are not options, and may lead to real problems. You mention a few, and for some of the things you mention, there are analogue options that would have met modern safety standards (manually activated differential locks - using a lever and cable - for example). There are other examples of the design team at Ineos choosing the electronic option over existing analogue options, but I'll just mention one: the digital screen instead of analogue gauges for speed and things like fuel level, oil temp, etc. If that screen fails, you lose all your information about the vehicle (until a warning light goes off on the other screen).

At this point I've accepted all the design choices made by Ineos. But it still bugs me to see people celebrating the lack of a heated steering wheel as an example of how "simple" the Grenadier is. That makes no sense people.

I count myself amongst those that want old school analogue running gear but your example is a poor choice. At least it is in this day and age.

I'm not a "car guy" and neither is my partner. We haven't looked everywhere and I'm sure someone here will give an example otherwise but...

I don't know of any currently manufactured volume 4X4 available in the all countries where the Grenadier is sold that has an anologue instrument cluster. It's no longer an option due to varying regulations and standards and redundant, heavy, and expensive as well. Yes, you have dash components that appear to be analogue in most vehicles - but they're not. They are electronically controlled facsimiles (or simple screen images) that are wholly controlled by a vehicle's PCM/ECM/DME. There are no mechanical speedometer cables, no copper tubes carrying pressurized engine oil, no simple temp senders or wax pelletor switches or vaccum lines or bi-metal spring gauges independently running standalone instruments anymore. Everything is run from multiple processors through the vehicle's main computer and out through a canbus system to whatever nonsense the manufacturer wants you to experience as a "dash". The newest cars we own at nearly 25 years of age mostly don't have true gauges and what's there can still go dead in an instant if there's loss of connectivity to the PCM and are each individually subject to failure as well. What's the point of that?

I'm sure you're aware of this. I'm not trying to lecture anybody here but Ineos - and the vehicle designer himself - has said (to paraphrase) "why bother to come up with an artificial dash design with a bunch fake gauges when all we need is a single screen?" They didn't do it (ala Tesla) to be cool. They did it because it was simpler and less complicated.

I'm trying to see the bright side here without being an apologist. In a way Ineos has done us a favor despite much gnashing of (my) teeth. Now all we need to carry is a spare screen (laptops get replacements all the time) and maybe a back-up ECM (if Ineos will get/flash us spares) and we're set. Carrying some sort of OBDII reader may even suffice for a failed screen as far as knowing basic engine functions are concerned.

 

[stickshifter]

I count myself amongst those that want old school analogue running gear but your example is a poor choice. At least it is in this day and age.

I'm not a "car guy" and neither is my partner. We haven't looked everywhere and I'm sure someone here will give an example otherwise but...

I don't know of any currently manufactured volume 4X4 available in the all countries where the Grenadier is sold that has an anologue instrument cluster. It's no longer an option due to varying regulations and standards and redundant, heavy, and expensive as well. Yes, you have dash components that appear to be analogue in most vehicles - but they're not. They are electronically controlled facsimiles (or simple screen images) that are wholly controlled by a vehicle's PCM/ECM/DME. There are no mechanical speedometer cables, no copper tubes carrying pressurized engine oil, no simple temp senders or wax pelletor switches or vaccum lines or bi-metal spring gauges independently running standalone instruments anymore. Everything is run from multiple processors through the vehicle's main computer and out through a canbus system to whatever nonsense the manufacturer wants you to experience as a "dash". The newest cars we own at nearly 25 years of age mostly don't have true gauges and what's there can still go dead in an instant if there's loss of connectivity to the PCM and are each individually subject to failure as well. What's the point of that?

I'm sure you're aware of this. I'm not trying to lecture anybody here but Ineos - and the vehicle designer himself - has said (to paraphrase) "why bother to come up with an artificial dash design with a bunch fake gauges when all we need is a single screen?" They didn't do it (ala Tesla) to be cool. They did it because it was simpler and less complicated.

I'm trying to see the bright side here without being an apologist. In a way Ineos has done us a favor despite much gnashing of (my) teeth. Now all we need to carry is a spare screen (laptops get replacements all the time) and maybe a back-up ECM (if Ineos will get/flash us spares) and we're set. Carrying some sort of OBDII reader may even suffice for a failed screen as far as knowing basic engine functions are concerned.

In theory, this sounds sensible. In practice, I have never had a speedometer or tachometer fail (the ones with the needle). Screens in cars seem to go black far more frequently by comparison. Maybe your experience is different than mine...

 

[255/85]

In theory, this sounds sensible. In practice, I have never had a speedometer or tachometer fail (the ones with the needle). Screens in cars seem to go black far more frequently by comparison. Maybe your experience is different than mine...

Yes, I've had a very small number analogue gauges fail or get well out of spec. And a few serious glitches with modern dash components that that righted themselves when codes were cleared or wiring connections were re-established. My point is that those older types of systems - however strongly we may wish to have them - add significant cost to the vehicle in a day when manufacturers are still going to have to engineer in the computerized version anyway.

How will we go forward from here with what Ineos is delivering is the challenge. How do we, on the enthusiast end, cover our bases in the middle of nowhere? A spare screen with a removable bezel upgrade (of some sort) or a bank of aftermarket gauges mounted somewhere in the cabin?