Eibach Pro-Lift Kit ~ +30mm coil springs

[BigJoeJack]

Buzz Overland announced a 2.5" lift coming soon on their Insta yesterday. That should be interesting!

 

[Krabby]

Buzz Overland announced a 2.5" lift coming soon on their Insta yesterday. That should be interesting!

Will be interesting to see what comes in the kit - it has to be more than just springs.

 

[AZGrenadier]

I think waiting for 6 months to a year is going to be the thing to do here. The IG is going to be a great platform that a lot of people and companies are going to be digging into. There are going to be a lot of options soon.

 

[LeeroyJ]

The stock shocks will work with the taller springs - otherwise Eibach would specify that replacing shocks is required with their lift.

However, you will lose downtravel if you lift the vehicle without going to a longer shock.

So... you gain some ground clearance for the undercarriage with the lift, and - if you choose to - you can run taller tires - which increases ground clearance under your diffs and axle housing. However, you lose some suspension travel - specifically downtravel or "droop" - which is how far the tires can travel down wards. In the first photo, the front left tire is demonstrating downtravel; in the second photo, the front right tire is demonstrating downtravel.

View attachment 7835106
View attachment 7835107

The stock Grenadier has good suspension travel, but you will lose some of that travel if you lift it, and keep the stock shocks. If you want to lift the Grenadier - and retain stock suspension travel - you will need to also install longer shocks.

It is worth noting that more and more vehicles in North America are coming with disconnectable front anti-sway bars, which increase suspension travel (Wrangler Rubicon, Ram Power Wagon, Ford Bronco, the new Landcruiser 250, some models of the new Tacoma). Increasing suspension travel keeps the body of the vehicle "flatter" on technical terrain, which increases safety as well as comfort. Reducing suspension travel might not matter for some users, but it is counter-productive for people who drive on more technical terrain.

On a stock Grenadier, what suspension component stops the down-travel/droop? (To be clear, I'm asking the opposite question of what stops compression, which is the bump stops.) Is it the limited travel of the stock shock, or are the springs captive, or is it the geometry of the suspension?

I don't know the answer, this is a legit question not some sort of trick

 

[douggie]

First and most obvious is the Shocks and their maximum travel length then possibly linkages to be seen/validated when you can extend further than the current shock and then other components like upper control arms.

Everything needs measuring pushing to max travel and checking clearances against other parts for possible rubbing, impact or interference.

 

[LeeroyJ]

First and most obvious is the Shocks and their maximum travel length then possibly linkages to be seen/validated when you can extend further than the current shock and then other components like upper control arms.

Everything needs measuring pushing to max travel and checking clearances against other parts for possible rubbing, impact or interference.

Ok thanks -- then the next question will be what stops it if we put longer shocks in -- control arms or break cables or .... (Edit -- brake not break, lol)

 

[DenisM]

Ok thanks -- then the next question will be what stops it if we put longer shocks in -- control arms or break cables or .... (Edit -- brake not break, lol)

You were almost correct the first time....could say "control arms or cables break"...

 

[douggie]

Ok thanks -- then the next question will be what stops it if we put longer shocks in -- control arms or break cables or .... (Edit -- brake not break, lol)

The Geenadier will be back in the Murchison Products workshop in Jan for some more measurements and checks and as I find out more utilising Stu’s engineering abilities to simulate or put in trial components to get a measure I will post the results. Target fitout for the front might be a 75mm longer custom Bilstein 5/6/8xxx shock (but which one) to pair with the 50mm lift the coil gave the front. There is a short (~2 inch) link that might be the next limiting factor, but I will stop short of changing out the upper control arms.

And then we have to have the discussion about how serious the offroading is going to be and the near religious fervour over digressive/progressive or linear profiles for the shocks and then everything is also about tradeoffs.

But my number one focus will be smoother steering.

 

[stickshifter]

Ok thanks -- then the next question will be what stops it if we put longer shocks in -- control arms or break cables or .... (Edit -- brake not break, lol)

After lifting a vehicle, up-travel can be limited by:
1. Bump stops
2. The compressed shock
3. A tire that is too large for the wheel well; you might need to trim fenders, replace fenders, or get a taller lift!

Down-travel can be limited by:

1. Shock Length: Down travel is typically limited by shock length. When you lift the suspension, the stock shock absorbers may not be long enough to accommodate the increased distance between the axle and the frame. If the shocks are too short for the suspension lift, you still get the benefits of the additional ground clearance, but you do not get the benefit of additional suspension travel. If your reason for lifting the vehicle is to better tackle technical terrain, you will want both ground clearance and greater suspension travel (i.e. wheel articulation).

2. Control Arm Length: The length of the control arms in the suspension system can also affect down-travel. Longer control arms are often required when lifting a vehicle to maintain proper suspension geometry. If the control arms are not adjusted or replaced accordingly, they can limit down-travel. From the factory, the Grenadier does not have very long control arms, but they should be fine for the 30mm Eibach lift and 33-inch tires. I don't know enough to say how they will work with a 35-inch tire.

3. Driveshaft Length: A suspension lift will affect the angle of the driveshaft. If the angle becomes too steep, it can lead to drive-line vibrations and limit down-travel. Some lift kits include components such as transfer case drop kits or adjustable control arms to address this issue. Some lifts require a longer - maybe custom - drive shaft.

4. Sway Bar Links: The sway bar (anti-roll bar) and its links can also affect suspension travel. Some lift kits include longer sway bar links to accommodate the increased ride height and maintain proper sway bar function.

5. Axle Articulation: This is a little vague, but the design of the axles and their associated components can also affect down-travel. Some aftermarket axles and differential housings are designed to allow for greater articulation (e.g. Dynatrac Prorock axles, Curry Rock-Jock axles), while others may limit it.

6. Brake lines: Brake lines can limit down travel, which is why a "lift kit" from a good manufacturer is often the best choice for people who do not have the expertise to build their own complete kit. A lift-kit from a good manufacturer will come with new brake lines if they are necessary.

That's my contribution - but I'm not an expert - just a guy who has installed and driven lifted solid-axle 4x4s for a long time. I think @j.ironfab knows quite a bit about suspension lifts - it would be great to hear if he has any additions to this list, or other thoughts.

 

[douggie]

After lifting a vehicle, up-travel can be limited by:
1. Bump stops
2. The compressed shock
3. A tire that is too large for the wheel well; you might need to trim fenders, replace fenders, or get a taller lift!

Down-travel can be limited by:

1. Shock Length: Down travel is typically limited by shock length. When you lift the suspension, the stock shock absorbers may not be long enough to accommodate the increased distance between the axle and the frame. If the shocks are too short for the suspension lift, you still get the benefits of the additional ground clearance, but you do not get the benefit of additional suspension travel. If your reason for lifting the vehicle is to better tackle technical terrain, you will want both ground clearance and greater suspension travel (i.e. wheel articulation).

2. Control Arm Length: The length of the control arms in the suspension system can also affect down-travel. Longer control arms are often required when lifting a vehicle to maintain proper suspension geometry. If the control arms are not adjusted or replaced accordingly, they can limit down-travel. From the factory, the Grenadier does not have very long control arms, but they should be fine for the 30mm Eibach lift and 33-inch tires. I don't know enough to say how they will work with a 35-inch tire.

3. Driveshaft Length: A suspension lift will affect the angle of the driveshaft. If the angle becomes too steep, it can lead to drive-line vibrations and limit down-travel. Some lift kits include components such as transfer case drop kits or adjustable control arms to address this issue. Some lifts require a longer - maybe custom - drive shaft.

4. Sway Bar Links: The sway bar (anti-roll bar) and its links can also affect suspension travel. Some lift kits include longer sway bar links to accommodate the increased ride height and maintain proper sway bar function.

5. Axle Articulation: This is a little vague, but the design of the axles and their associated components can also affect down-travel. Some aftermarket axles and differential housings are designed to allow for greater articulation (e.g. Dynatrac Prorock axles, Curry Rock-Jock axles), while others may limit it.

6. Brake lines: Brake lines can limit down travel, which is why a "lift kit" from a good manufacturer is often the best choice for people who do not have the expertise to build their own complete kit. A lift-kit from a good manufacturer will come with new brake lines if they are necessary.

That's my contribution - but I'm not an expert - just a guy who has driven lifted solid-axle 4x4s for a long time. I know of at least two suspension experts on this forum - @douggie and @j.ironfab - it would be great to hear their thoughts.

I am no expert (industrial engineer by trade but that was long time ago) and very much a newbie in this domain just replaying info I have gleaned from discussions with experts.

This is my 2nd vehicle to mod and I am a bit more hands on with this one.

I know stuff and I fix things, but I know guys who know more stuff and fix more things

 

[MShepherd]

Eibach +30mm on ebay.de for 450€

 

[Miki]

Höherlegungsfedern - what a great word, bordering on erotic.

 

[stickshifter]

I am no expert (industrial engineer by trade but that was long time ago) and very much a newbie in this domain just replaying info I have gleaned from discussions with experts.

This is my 2nd vehicle to mod and I am a bit more hands on with this one.

I know stuff and I fix things, but I know guys who know more stuff and fix more things

My apologies! I just edited your name out of the original post. It is still great to hear about your experience with the Grenadier.

 

[douggie]

Well having got back from a 5800km road trip in the Grenadier about 4200kms with the 3.5 tonne Caravan, testing out Eibach lift coils and the rear airbags at 25-30psi, the rims had finally been delivered (well 5 out of 6 anyway).

So I put the Method Race 701 wheels on early this week with the Yokohama GO16 LT285/70R17s. I am away this week but initial drive back from Bob Jane T-Mart was real smooth less road noise than the stock steelies with KO2s

Next step is to go back to the engineer to check clearances and measure for shock upgrades and try deleting that low mounted steering damper.

Before: (with the new Eibach coils)

After:

Notice the 6 x splined method race wheel nuts they provide (and yes you need their nuts and fitting and wheel balancing instructions to be followed to get a good result)

 

[ADVAW8S]

Care to comment on the ride with the lift?

 

[Znarfgh]

Eibach +30mm on ebay.de for 450€

Yes but only for non winch models (info for the non German speakers in the group)

 

[MShepherd]

Yes but only for non winch models (info for the non German speakers in the group)

it's an old link! found it cheaper here (German side! with shipping in Europe):
without winch and
with winch

 

[Cheshire cat]

Question:
Does a 1" lift make much difference over the standard height?
I ask as someone not experienced in overloading. I can appreciate a 4" lift doing the business but with other trade off's.

 

[stickshifter]

Question:
Does a 1" lift make much difference over the standard height?
I ask as someone not experienced in overloading. I can appreciate a 4" lift doing the business but with other trade off's.

It depends on what else you do, and your goals.

A lot of folks (e.g. Expedition Portal) argue that a 1.5 inch suspension lift is optimal for overlanding (not technical rock crawling, but overlanding):

(1) It gives you 1.5 inches additional ground clearance for the undercarriage.
(2) It typically allows you to run a tire that is 1-3 inches taller than stock - depending on the vehicle (IFS vs SFA), the size of the wheel wells, etc. The taller tire raises ground clearance under the differentials by 0.5 - 1.5 inches (depending on how much tire you add).
(3) Between the suspension lift and the taller tire, you have increased clearance for the undercarriage by 2-3 inches.
(4) Usually, a suspension lift of 1.5 inches is small enough that it will not mess-up suspension geometry, or require modification to other components of the vehicle.

In summary, a 1-inch or 1.5-inch suspension lift can allow for larger tires, and the combo of the two (lift + tires) can provide significant advantage for overlanding / general off-road driving. It is also small enough that it won't be the first domino to fall in a long series of vehicle modifications that are a consequence of a taller suspension lift.

 

[douggie]

Care to comment on the ride with the lift?

I’ve done 5800kms with the lift (towing 4200km, off road logging tracks 6hrs, remainder mixed highways) and a further 200kms on the new method race wheels and the Yokohama GO16s inflated to 40psi

Really happy with stability and handling compared to the stock springs, great cornering and less roll, which was an unexpected bonus, but perhaps explained by the stiffness of the new Eibach Coils with that 1mm thicker cross section, and with the airbags in the rears very acceptable behaviour much better than before for the towing my 3500kg caravan.