Diesel Diesel Oil Specification Thread (B57 Engines)

[Tom D]

I suspect it will have two, the engine has been optimised for torque at low revs, to get that they’d need a turbo that kicks in early, and another to give power higher up the rev band.

 

[DenisM]

I suspect it will have two, the engine has been optimised for torque at low revs, to get that they’d need a turbo that kicks in early, and another to give power higher up the rev band.

Both the UK and Australian price lists published before the price rise refer to the petrol engine as "turbo straight 6" and the diesel engine as "twin turbo straight six"

Further, P175 of the Owner's Manual (English) the specified oil for the diesel engine is "0/5W30" on the next line it says "Recommended engine oil 0/5W-30 Petronas Syntium DG"
IMHO the 'recommendation' is 'product placement' and a reputable manufacturer's 0/5W30 product meeting BMW published standards will suffice.

 

[Logsplitter]

This is from the brochure today. Does twin mean two or twin scroll?

 

[DenisM]

I've always understood "twin" to imply two separate turbos.. in sequence or parallel, while a twin scroll is a single turbo with two impellers on the same or parallel axles in a single housing.

@DaveB explains it pretty well on previous page, post #69

 

[CountyV8]

I think BMWs reference to “twin power turbo” covering the turbo vanos etc etc is misleading even single turbo engines get the twin power sticker

 

[Logsplitter]

I see Ford use the term bi-turbo for a two turbo set up.

 

[ECrider]

I see Ford use the term bi-turbo for a two turbo set up.

and audi

 

[DenisM]

and audi

There's no difference... the term describes two turbos in separate housings working in either parallel or in series. I've seen MB use the bi-turbo description also on the turbo V8 G-Wagen

 

[DenisM]

I think BMWs reference to “twin power turbo” covering the turbo vanos etc etc is misleading even single turbo engines get the twin power sticker

Yeah, a bit confusing ...The B58 engine in the Ineos is a single turbo housing with twin scrolls inside. There's a full description in the BMW Technical Education pdf docs posted a few months ago on this forum.

 

[emax]

There are a few things that can happen with higher viscosity oil in an engine designed for lower. Increased engine wear below operating temp as it can not properly lubricate leading to increased oil use. For engines with tight tolerances the high viscosity oil can’t flow into all the areas and this means it won’t seal as well. Higher viscosity doesn’t transfer heat as well and leads to higher temps….doesn’t mean don’t use increased viscosity as the application may require it and every use case is different. Time outside optimum design viscosity is important.

The oil viscosities have a range starting from 0W or 5W so why should they not properly lubricate? If an engine is designed for lower viscoity than the oil in the engine, it would simply be the wrong oil. But if I am within the specs, the general claim that a higher viscosity can lead to more oil consumption than a lower one does not seem logic to me.

Also, I don't understand what is supposed to have "tighter" tolerances regarding lubrication issues: Isn't a C3 or H7 (or whatever) fit these days still what it always was?

Or if you look at pistons and cylinders, the clearance between piston and cylinder (as an example) is a different order of magnitude, around 0.02 mm to 0.03 mm, than the actual factor for piston lubrication - the roughness of the cylinder wall, which is measured in µm.

With the multi-range viscosities we're talking about here I don't see a lubrication problem with the choice of the higher viscosity as long as it is within the specs.

 

[DenisM]

This is from the brochure today. Does twin mean two or twin scroll?View attachment 7807521

The above distinguishes between the twin turbo setup for the diesel and a single turbo for the petrol.
The BMW Tech ed publication referenced in this thread says the B58 petrol engine has a single turbo with a "twin scroll"...
However, there are other write-ups on the B57 which specifically show the two separate turbochargers each with their own variable geometry nozzle (referenced by BMW as "Twin Power" ---see DaveB's post #69. )
EDIT UPDATE
What is interesting is that the quoted power and torque outputs for the Grenadier B57 version are notably lower than the standard outputs for the same engine in the current BMW diesel sedans and SUVs... 185Kw /550Nm for the Grenadier compared to 210Kw/650Nm for the lower specc'd diesel in the 7-series and X - SUVs. The more powerful version is 250Kw/700Nm!

No doubt there'll be "upgrade opportunities" in due course!

 

[DaveB]

There's no difference... the term describes two turbos in separate housings working in either parallel or in series. I've seen MB use the bi-turbo description also on the turbo V8 G-Wagen

The petrol and diesel are different setups
The diesel is a twin/dual sequential compound turbo

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVHZWLFXKPo

 

[baders]

For us Aussies with diesels, it looks as though LiquiMoly has a product that conforms to BMW Longlife 12-FE. From imparts.com.au

• 
  
  

  LIQUI MOLY Top Tec 6100 0W-30​

  Due to the low HTHS viscosity, the motor oil may only be used in approved BMW diesel and gasoline engines.
  Motor oil based on synthetic technology. Ensures outstanding performance and a long engine service life. Improves the viscosity, lowers friction and reduces fuel consumption. Additives with a much lower proportion of ash-forming substances provide optimal protection for the diesel particulate filter from dirt. Keeps sensitive engine components clean.
  Approvals
  ACEA C2
  BMW Longlife-12 FE
  LIQUI MOLY recommends this product for vehicles that needs to comply the following specifications:
  BMW 83 21 2 365 935
  BMW 83 21 2 405 097
  BMW 83 21 2 405 666
  5L Part No: 20779
  20L Part No: 20772

 

[Mr. Largo WINCH]

 

[cheswick]

For us Aussies with diesels, it looks as though LiquiMoly has a product that conforms to BMW Longlife 12-FE. From imparts.com.au

Yep and Hi-Tec oils as well, they manufacture locally in Australia whereas LM are imported from Germany

 

[FlyingTexan]

Shell Rotella T6 is the best oil out there

 

[DenisM]

Shell Rotella T6 is the best oil out there

maybe, for certain applications, however for the BMW engines 0W-20 (petrol) and 0/5W-30 for diesel oils are specified.
Rotella T6 is a heavier oil xW-40, so "out of spec" for the Grenadier...

 

[bakepl]

Perplexing isn't it given the twin turbo of the diesel, hoping it's all sorted by time arrives in Aus. Petronis oil is not a well known brand in Aus. Here's something I read. Be interesting what is recommended for Africa as well.

BMW Longlife-12FE Oil Spec​

This BMW motor oil specification was formulated around 2013 for both BMW diesel engines equipped with diesel particulate filter (DPF) exhaust systems and also some gasoline engines. The BMW Longlife-12 oil specification can also be referred to by many as BMW LL12, Longlife 12, or LL-12. However, the correct and proper identification for this oil quality standard is BMW Longlife-12FE. This oil specification is recommended for BMW diesel engines from 2014 onward. Its recommended for BMW gasoline with three-cylinder, four-cylinder, and six-cylinder engines with one or no turbocharger. The BMW Longlife-12FE formulation is always a fully synthetic long-life oil with a viscosity of SAE 0W-30. The BMW Longlife-12FE motor oil should not be used in gasoline engines with multi-turbo systems. If BMW Longlife-12FE is not available in your region the BMW Longlife-04 diesel oil spec can be used in place of BMW Longlife-12FE. BMW Longlife-04 can also be used in place of BMW Longlife-12FE when an SAE 5W30 is preferred over SAE 0W30.

 

[bakepl]

This is the response I received from a well known oil manufacturer in Aus regarding oil recommendations for the I.G, hopefully something will come out soon: (I was hoping for an alternate option for hotter climates say 5W40 and to include twin turbo and dpf)

'Thanks for contacting us regarding the Ineos. Penrite along with all oil companies use a 3rd party for data from all OEM’s.
To date they have not released any info on the Inoes which means we are not yet in a position to offer a recommendation.'

 

[b58]

LL12FE has its purpose in its name. FE stands for fuel economy. And that is what LL12 is all about. LL12 is the same like LL04 but with lower HTHS, and thus lower hot and cold viscosity. This aims at less friction force coming from oil thickness which effects fuel economy.
One of the LL12 specs is DPF and OPF-compatibility guaranteed by low-ash formulation. This always had been a demand of LL04 as well. Both LL12FE and LL04 are mostly low- and mid-SAPS oils. Their sulfated ash content is < 0,8%.

To sum it up, LL04 is fully compatible to the Gren's engines, but according to it's higher HTHS, viscosity and thickness it effects fuel economy. LL04 oils mostly have 5W-30 viscosity, LL12 mostly is 0W30. Tbh, the idea of fuel consumption only affects testing benches, not real road conditions. The KV100 between LL12 and LL04 oils does not differ too much. The effect won't even be measurable in practical.