Diesel Diesel Oil Specification Thread (B57 Engines)

[Stu_Barnes]

BMW Longlife-12FE Oil Spec​

This BMW motor oil specification was formulated around 2013 for both BMW diesel engines equipped with diesel particulate filter (DPF) exhaust systems and also some gasoline engines. The BMW Longlife-12 oil specification can also be referred to by many as BMW LL12, Longlife 12, or LL-12. However, the correct and proper identification for this oil quality standard is BMW Longlife-12FE. This oil specification is recommended for BMW diesel engines from 2014 onward. Its recommended for BMW gasoline with three-cylinder, four-cylinder, and six-cylinder engines with one or no turbocharger. The BMW Longlife-12FE formulation is always a fully synthetic long-life oil with a viscosity of SAE 0W-30. The BMW Longlife-12FE motor oil should not be used in gasoline engines with multi-turbo systems. If BMW Longlife-12FE is not available in your region the BMW Longlife-04 diesel oil spec can be used in place of BMW Longlife-12FE. BMW Longlife-04 can also be used in place of BMW Longlife-12FE when an SAE 5W30 is preferred over SAE 0W30.

https://www.blauparts.com/blog/about-bmw-oil-quality-specifications.html

 

[Highwayman]

Interesting video on modern oils and their relationship with older engines, and vice versa

View: https://youtu.be/ngGcFZPsWtE

 

[emax]

Higher viscosity can lead to increased wear, fuel and oil consumption in a modern engine developed with tight tolerances.

Although I agree to the fuel consumption I'm surprised about the rest. Wear upon cold starts I can imagine as well - though I'd assume it'd be less in normal operation temperatures.

But can you explain why oil consumption would increase due to higher viscosity?

 

[Tom D]

What I’d like is a genuine unbiased opinion on is whether using thinner oils to achieve greater fuel economy is to the detriment of engine wear. I get all the modern engine tolerances are finer etc but I want to know; will going up a viscosity grade do any harm? Because the way I see it it will prolong engine life.
What I do know is its usually ok to go down a grade on the Winter viscosity and up a grade on the summer viscosity but not in the opposite direction ….
I.E. 5w30 to 0w40 is ok (unlikely to be a problem) but going 5w40 to 10w30 could be a big mistake…

 

[Greasemonkey]

Good question.

I do know that I have seen two mentions that BMW LL-12FE (the oil referenced on the bonnet label) is not suited for engines with 2 or more turbochargers. The first is in post #9: "Not for diesel engines with 2, or 3 TC's." and the second in post #44 link from Opie Oils: "Not suitable for engines with 2 or 3 turbos."

I thought I'd read that the B57 has two turbos?

The Grenadier B57 engine has got a Twin Scroll Charger. This might be the reason why oil with the specification LL12 FE is the recommended, because it is more or less only a single charger.

 

[emax]

will going up a viscosity grade do any harm? Because the way I see it it will prolong engine life.

I see it the same way.

But as usual - it depends.

If you drive a lot of short distances, for city cruising, or if the engine often doesn't reach operating temperature, etc., a thinner oil might be a better choice. However, for long distances, high loads, towing, and in gernal higher operating temperatures, a higher viscosity provides a more stable oil film everywhere, I think.

The problem is that modern engines are optimized for lower fuel consumption and therefore take much longer to warm up. My 23 year old C220 TDI engine warms up sufficiently within 10 km at average ambient temperature, say around 20°C - which will most likely not be the case with a modern diesel engine.

I intend not to start the Grenadier for short distances. For that I take my scooter, my diesel motorcycle or the SLK. The SLK's coolant reaches operating temperature in less than 5 km and the heater already works after only 2 km, even in winter. This is not possible with a diesel, in particular not with a modern one and for sure not with one as big as the B57.

Different engine generations, different engine types (diesel/gasoline) and different driving profiles require different oils.

I certainly won't be using [0/5]W-20. But I will try to find the right one for my conditions, which will as a learning process take some time to know how the engine temperature develops in my use cases. For me the question is whether it will be [0/5]W30 or [0/5]W40.

If I know I have a longer trip coming up, such as to Sicily or Sardinia, the Pyrenees or Greece, it might always be worth switching to [0/5]W-40 at least for that time of the year.


EDIT: [0/5] indicates that I'm not yet sure about a 0W or 5W specification.

 

[CS Dunes and Snow]

Fuchs Titan GTX1 FLEX C2 SAE 0W30, BMW Norm Longlife 12 FE

www.fuchs.com

 

[ARF]

Although I agree to the fuel consumption I'm surprised about the rest. Wear upon cold starts I can imagine as well - though I'd assume it'd be less in normal operation temperatures.

But can you explain why oil consumption would increase due to higher viscosity?

There are a few things that can happen with higher viscosity oil in an engine designed for lower. Increased engine wear below operating temp as it can not properly lubricate leading to increased oil use. For engines with tight tolerances the high viscosity oil can’t flow into all the areas and this means it won’t seal as well. Higher viscosity doesn’t transfer heat as well and leads to higher temps….doesn’t mean don’t use increased viscosity as the application may require it and every use case is different. Time outside optimum design viscosity is important.

 

[DaveB]

The Grenadier B57 engine has got a Twin Scroll Charger. This might be the reason why oil with the specification LL12 FE is the recommended, because it is more or less only a single charger.

No it has twin sequential compound turbos
So a low pressure and a separate high pressure turbo
One feeds air into the other so it gets boosted twice and spools up much faster
I think the petrol has a single twin scroll turbo but honestly I haven't looked at it as I am only interested in the diesel
Below is the actual unit supplied by Garrett

The Tech Behind the Garrett Turbochargers That Keep BMW B57 Diesel Engines Alive

Let's explore the innovative technologies behind Garett's two-stage VNT turbos used to improve efficiency and reduce emissions on BMW's B57 diesel engines

www.autoevolution.com

 

[Lollo050968]

I will use in the guarantee period the recommended oil. If something happen with the engine, 100% Ineos will check which oil was used. If it’s not following their rules, they will not pay anything.
We had a broken 2.5l 5Zylinder 2 years ago at a Audi (car was 25months old, 22.000km) without guarantee 28.500€ impact. We were happy to have the full cover, because of inspection and following the Audi rules.

 

[DaveB]

I am really surprised that this hasn't been mentioned anywhere or even if it is the case on the Grenadier diesel
It would surprise me if they have changed this part of the engine from standard

 

[CountyV8]

These oil threads are good but no-one has mentioned how often you think we should change oil drop after 1K then ever y 5K or every 10K at least we will babe draining via the sump plug as no dipstick.

 

[Steveo]

These oil threads are good but no-one has mentioned how often you think we should change oil drop after 1K then ever y 5K or every 10K at least we will babe draining via the sump plug as no dipstick.

There’s a dipstick on the diesel. we are just told to not use it for gauging oil levels.

 

[Rok_Dr]

I suspect strongly that given the oil sticker spec posted here and power output, Ineos are using a single turbo. According to wickipedia there are 3 variants of the B57 which can use 1, 2 or 4 turbos. The standard B57D30O0,195kw single turbo looks like a close match.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_B57.
I guess getting someone to look under the bonnet next time that they are at the dealer to count turbos and check the engine designation number below the Engine serial number on the side of the engine will solve the debate.

Cheers
Steve

 

[James]

They have bee very clear it is twin sequential for diesel, as per daveb, and twin scroll for petrol.
it would be hard to get the low down torque at 1250 and still have any performance at mid rev range with just one.
i dont think anyone has seen oil spec sticker for hot countries yet? It will be interesting to see. But bmw not noted for catastrophic problems in heat, even with much higher states of tune, so im not thinking this is a potential problem, just a way of diverting ourselves while there’s no cars and no explnation….

 

[DCPU]

I will use in the guarantee period the recommended oil. If something happen with the engine, 100% Ineos will check which oil was used. If it’s not following their rules, they will not pay anything.

The recommended oil is Petronas Syntium 0W30 DG (as listed in the Owner's Handbook). The Petronas helpline (Technical Support UK) have advised, after getting a reply from their HQ in Italy that "Syntium DG is a factory first fill product." and "Unfortunately we don't have it in our open market range."

Where will you get oil from?

They have bee very clear it is twin sequential for diesel

Can you share/link where you have seen this?

 

[DCPU]

I am really surprised that this hasn't been mentioned anywhere or even if it is the case on the Grenadier diesel
It would surprise me if they have changed this part of the engine from standard
View attachment 7807496

I think the vanity mirror rules apply.

 

[Lollo050968]

The recommended oil is Petronas Syntium 0W30 DG (as listed in the Owner's Handbook). The Petronas helpline (Technical Support UK) have advised, after getting a reply from their HQ in Italy that "Syntium DG is a factory first fill product." and "Unfortunately we don't have it in our open market range."

Where will you get oil from?

Can you share/link where you have seen this?

Yes, but if the brand is not available, it´s „recommended“, but the class is 0W30 etc and the BMW release is at the end the required one. The brand is not important.

 

[DCPU]

but the class is 0W30 etc and the BMW release is at the end the required one.

Well that's what needs clarification, several supplier's state that their oil to the specification quoted is not suitable for engines with more than one turbo.

 

[James]

The recommended oil is Petronas Syntium 0W30 DG (as listed in the Owner's Handbook). The Petronas helpline (Technical Support UK) have advised, after getting a reply from their HQ in Italy that "Syntium DG is a factory first fill product." and "Unfortunately we don't have it in our open market range."

Where will you get oil from?

Can you share/link where you have seen this?

re q on source of turbo info:
Direct from IA staff.
Also consistent with marketing info from as early as i remember, and
they also gave spec number of b57 variant of engine a while back, which i looked up, as did many linked through forum, to bmw docs that gave exhaustive specs. Other variants (not chosen by ineos) were single, or quad turbo. There was discussion and verification from forum members of that detail In some depth, it will be back in a thread somewhere. I dont have much luck with forum searches On my interface.
i think that was the thread that led daveb to posting the specific turbo unit

there’s definitely often been confusion between people using twin interchangeably with twin scroll, and ive seen many journos getting it wrong with respect to which fuel gets which turbo variant, but never seen confusion from IA material. Have you?