Americas Communications (INEOS and dealer)

[Roach]

A direct-from-manufacturer model has worked for other luxury goods. e.g. Apple (Apple Store) and Sony (Sony Store, existed for decades in Canada) come to mind. Direct to consumer unsleazy sales (consultation rather than heavy pushing to make quota) and professional after-sales service.

I understand there are laws in some places that prevent this model for automobiles, but whatever, question the old thinking. Remove middlemen that add no value whenever possible, right?

Would you prefer a co-op or Direct To Consumer (DTC) ? I think DTC works almost every place but the US.

 

[AngusMacG]

So I figured I'd follow-up with my dealer about my vehicle especially seeing that Curry in CT is communicating to some customers. My dealer was very responsive but unfortunately has no further information. I know my build was delivered to Baltimore the beginning of the month based on the shipping manifests yet my dealer doesn't seem to know anything. The communication I received back is that they are waiting to hear from INEOS and will let me know as soon as they hear. Guessing it will just be a vicious loop of not knowing anything until INEOS sends information along.

I guess some dealers are more aggressive in assisting their customers than others.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

So I figured I'd follow-up with my dealer about my vehicle especially seeing that Curry in CT is communicating to some customers. My dealer was very responsive but unfortunately has no further information. I know my build was delivered to Baltimore the beginning of the month based on the shipping manifests yet my dealer doesn't seem to know anything. The communication I received back is that they are waiting to hear from INEOS and will let me know as soon as they hear. Guessing it will just be a vicious loop of not knowing anything until INEOS sends information along.

I guess some dealers are more aggressive in assisting their customers than others.

I think the great surprise here, at least for me, is that the grenadier has become an aspirational vehicle in the United States, coupled with potential customers that want a full experiential purchase process.
I don’t ever recall in my entire life running into someone that was tracking the manifest of container vessels looking for Vin numbers for an automobile that wouldn’t be delivered for several months. That’s a new one to me.
Experiential marketing hasn’t been the forte of the automotive industry. I’m pretty sure very few dealers do that commonly.

You will see the dealers that sell upscale brands, Working more with their potential clients, because they hope to establish a relationship that has you come back in a couple years and buy something else that they make more money on. They are looking for growth in their customer base fed to them via a different channel.

I don’t know if that’s the same thing as what the people who signed up for Grenadier’s have in mind.

 

[AngusMacG]

I think the great surprise here, at least for me, is that the grenadier has become an aspirational vehicle in the United States, coupled with potential customers that want a full experiential purchase process.
I don’t ever recall in my entire life running into someone that was tracking the manifest of container vessels looking for Vin numbers for an automobile that wouldn’t be delivered for several months. That’s a new one to me.
Experiential marketing hasn’t been the forte of the automotive industry. I’m pretty sure very few dealers do that commonly.

You will see the dealers that sell upscale brands, Working more with their potential clients, because they hope to establish a relationship that has you come back in a couple years and buy something else that they make more money on. They are looking for growth in their customer base fed to them via a different channel.

I don’t know if that’s the same thing as what the people who signed up for Grenadier’s have in mind.

I'm not 100% on what you mean by an experiential purchase process...I am all about getting my vehicle as soon as possible. If I am able to get more information than the dealer then I see a problem with communication between the dealer and the manufacturer. From a business perspective profit is the key and carrying inventory from one month to the next is a disaster on profit margins. This is especially true in the automotive market. If a vehicle is built, shipped, and sits in a port for weeks on end then this means that vehicle is costing the manufacturer money. A manufacturer AND dealer only realize their profit when the vehicle is sold.

Anticipation and the desire for instant gratification do come into play but clearly INEOS and the dealers need to work more closely together with each other and the customer to get vehicles sold as quickly as possible. When this happens everyone is happy and the more Grenadiers on the road will only help to sell more vehicles in the future.

 

[Roach]

Information can be powerful and maybe frustrating. I don't think there is anything wrong that we expect our dealer to rise up to a new level or service. 70k plus spent (almost) anyplace else on a single item would get you some pretty decent service. I also think that the dealers are afraid of releasing information in advance of what Ineos has provided as it then becomes a liability for the dealer (my dealer said....).

 

[Roving.Grenadier]

Just my impression of communications from INEOS and my local dealer.

I am underwhelmed regarding communications from post-reservation and follow-ups. For a new vehicle and company(ies) entering the market I would expect more updates from both INEOS and local dealers. It does appear that the major communication issues may be with INEOS directly And not local dealers but the lack of direct updates is stunning to me. I just found this forum recently and am impressed with the level of knowledge and detail this community is providing.

It seemed like we were in limbo about the status of building the company and the vehicle for far too long. Yes would we see a video here and there, occasional news stories, etc. INEOS has contacts of everyone (worldwide) that was interested in their product. It doesn’t take much effort to send a targeted email with updates to keep everyone’s interest up. Even after they started accepting pre-orders and then deposits I thought the communications might improve but to no avail.

When INEOS came to the Boston area and announced an event too drive a Grenadier they only provided about 2 days notice. I was unable to attend due to the short notice.

I dropped in on my local dealer when I saw that other dealerships had demo vehicles on hand. NO communication from my local dealer that vehicles were there. When I showed up just to get my first in-person look (which I loved) they told me that they had already began setting up test drives! How could a communication not only not go out that they had vehicles but that were starting to set test drive appointments??? Obviously I made my appointment on the spot.

Clearly the admins and members of this forum are able to find information that neither INEOS nor the dealers are sharing. I know that they are under promising and possibly over delivering but there is a big difference between under promising and just outright not communicating. Hopefully moving forward INEOS and the dealers will have better communication with each other and the end users.

I think you just need to turn on your phone notifications

In all seriousness, my dealer has been keeping me informed as soon as they hear anything pertinent, I've been pretty happy with them. As soon as the day arrived for the announcement for the dealer network, the GM and sale member got in touch with me.

I don't have this enormous expectation on Ineos for non-stop comms though, and have been satisfied with their pace. But maybe I am distracted by other things in life so the IG is kind of like, "it gets here when it gets here."

Hope your dealership steps it up!

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

FWIW, all those rides in the ruts are experiential marketing.
The goal is to paint a picture mentally and physically of you living your new life riding around in that vehicle doing these kinds of things with a huge grin on your face, and soften you against how much it’s going to cost you.
Sending the customer GPS coordinates of the location of the ship as it pulls out of a port on the other side of the Earth is really a new extension of that.

 

[flynnsk]

Holy Cripes! The amount of whines due to fomo is amazing. Personally, my experience with Ineos has been far better than with Ford (Bronco).

 

[AnD3rew]

I think the great surprise here, at least for me, is that the grenadier has become an aspirational vehicle in the United States, coupled with potential customers that want a full experiential purchase process.
I don’t ever recall in my entire life running into someone that was tracking the manifest of container vessels looking for Vin numbers for an automobile that wouldn’t be delivered for several months. That’s a new one to me.
Experiential marketing hasn’t been the forte of the automotive industry. I’m pretty sure very few dealers do that commonly.

You will see the dealers that sell upscale brands, Working more with their potential clients, because they hope to establish a relationship that has you come back in a couple years and buy something else that they make more money on. They are looking for growth in their customer base fed to them via a different channel.

I don’t know if that’s the same thing as what the people who signed up for Grenadier’s have in mind.

I am on Jimny forums and Land Rover forums and people there do track their vehicles with excitement and I know the same for some other brands with loyal followers and short supply. It’s not unique to Grenadier

 

[FlyingTexan]

So I figured I'd follow-up with my dealer about my vehicle especially seeing that Curry in CT is communicating to some customers. My dealer was very responsive but unfortunately has no further information. I know my build was delivered to Baltimore the beginning of the month based on the shipping manifests yet my dealer doesn't seem to know anything. The communication I received back is that they are waiting to hear from INEOS and will let me know as soon as they hear. Guessing it will just be a vicious loop of not knowing anything until INEOS sends information along.

I guess some dealers are more aggressive in assisting their customers than others.

I'm in the same boat with Mossy in Houston. One thing he did add is they haven't received any of the dealer installed items yet and don't have info on when those will be available. I'm of the mindset I'd still want it and take it back to have the diamond plates put on at a later time.

 

[Magical Mystery Tours]

After months of waiting for delivery (it took three months to get the car from the dealer to me), I started getting error message after error message and a battery that wouldn't stay charged for three days. Now the Grenadier has a defective supply line for AdBlue and I (and the garage) have been waiting 14 days for a replacement part. And what do I get: Phrase answers like "Thanks for the patience" and finally I and the garage are "ghosted". And yet it says on the website: "We know: You depend on your Grenadier. And you can't afford costly downtime. That's why our network of local authorized workshops stocks frequently needed spare parts. In addition, we endeavor to provide all out-of-stock parts within a maximum of 48 hours." This is probably a translation error and does not mean 48 hours but 48 days...

We lived with a Ford Ranger for 5 years, which was in the service garage more than the usual service intervals due to sensor faults. So we sunk a lot of money after the warranty period. Now we seem to have jumped out of the frying pan into the fire and are not even getting reliable answers. It's simply disappointing when you can't plan projects reliably because the car starts producing error messages 24 hours in advance. We have brought problems into our home for around €70,000 and have no competent contact person. INEOS advertises with partners who can help you immediately - but don't do it. I get through to a hotline that tells me that it is only responsible for the EU and that Luxembourg is not part of it (although Luxembourg is a founding member). When I explained this to the man, he wanted the number of the contract that tells him that he is responsible.

 

[Magical Mystery Tours]

After months of waiting for delivery (it took three months to get the car from the dealer to me), I started getting error message after error message and a battery that wouldn't stay charged for three days. Now the Grenadier has a defective supply line for AdBlue and I (and the garage) have been waiting 14 days for a replacement part. And what do I get: Phrase answers like "Thanks for the patience" and finally I and the garage are "ghosted". And yet it says on the website: "We know: You depend on your Grenadier. And you can't afford costly downtime. That's why our network of local authorized workshops stocks frequently needed spare parts. In addition, we endeavor to provide all out-of-stock parts within a maximum of 48 hours." This is probably a translation error and does not mean 48 hours but 48 days...

We lived with a Ford Ranger for 5 years, which was in the service garage more than the usual service intervals due to sensor faults. So we sunk a lot of money after the warranty period. Now we seem to have jumped out of the frying pan into the fire and are not even getting reliable answers. It's simply disappointing when you can't plan projects reliably because the car starts producing error messages 24 hours in advance. We have brought problems into our home for around €70,000 and have no competent contact person. INEOS advertises with partners who can help you immediately - but don't do it. I get through to a hotline that tells me that it is only responsible for the EU and that Luxembourg is not part of it (although Luxembourg is a founding member). When I explained this to the man, he wanted the number of the contract that tells him that he is responsible.

Update: The Grenadier has been back in the yard since Thursday. On Tuesday, the garage finally got hold of someone at INEOS, who promised wholeheartedly to get the spare part on its way. But nothing happened. Now the garage has removed this part from another Grenadier and fitted it to ours. Incidentally, this also happened a few weeks ago when the battery was faulty. The car has now been in the garage for a total of 14 days. A reminder from the INEOS website: We know: You depend on your Grenadier. And you can't afford costly downtime. That's why our network of local authorized garages stocks the parts you need more often. What's more, we strive to provide all out-of-stock parts within a maximum of 48 hours.

 

[Trialmaster]

I agree - the condescending messages you get from Ineos when you ask a question is very unprofessional.

Hope you get it all sorted soon....

 

[rovie]

A step in the right direction at INEOS Automotive in terms of communication. There was a meeting with INEOS responsibility, Lynn Calder, Sir Jim Ratcliffe and selected dealers, at least here in Germany. I don't know if there are any elsewhere. The well-known topics such as software, heating/air conditioning control, radio receiver and others were probably discussed there. INEOS Automotive is aware that they have issues to deal with. I am convinced that they are doing so. As I understand it, the information from dealers, but also directly from customers, is taken seriously. The important thing is that things are addressed objectively. In my opinion, it is neither justified nor appropriate to make a generalized negative assessment of the Grenadier. We can only tackle things together and must also be patient. I also have issues that I would like to have resolved. But I'm happy every day about what INEOS Automotive has achieved. A great vehicle.

 

[chrsbe]

- It is clear that shit is hitting the fan big time at Ineos. Obviously they have no system in place. Implementing SAP or whatever is like a heart transplantation. Needs all your management attention.
- Obviously they have a lot of issues in their inhouse production. Everyone who knows a thing or two about producing complex products will say that this is completely normal. But it also needs a lot of attention.
- Obviously there is no one in the Management team who understands that there is another major task to do. Building the brand. Maybe in their inside view they already see Ineos as a big brand. They are right it is. But in a complete different product class.
Their reputation is on the edge. They might just not have realized this.

 

[AngusMacG]

Does anyone know if they have regional Ineos Representatives? Someone who works directly for Ineos and not the dealers. Other manufacturers tend to have this role where they interface directly with dealers and get involved in serious issues related to warranty, etc.

 

[anand]

Does anyone know if they have regional Ineos Representatives? Someone who works directly for Ineos and not the dealers. Other manufacturers tend to have this role where they interface directly with dealers and get involved in serious issues related to warranty, etc.

Yes, they do

 

[FlyingTexan]

It's been 5 months and I still can't get anyone to figure out how to get my my jacket. I leave for Berlin in a week would have been nice. Everyone just keeps dickin around.

 

[AWo]

Visit Munich, there is one (the only?) Belstaff store...

AWo

 

[dreamalaska]

With Greg Clark, Vice President of Ineos Automotive of the Americas, announcing that Ineos Mexico is coming online in the 4th Quarter 2024, it concerns me that Ineos is barreling forward while obviously still suffering from teething problems with the vehicle itself.

In the Military when a situation gets to point where things are at the cusp of getting out of control we have a “stand down” - aka “stop work”, to review our processes and identify where the process is broken and fix it before someone gets killed. It sounds like Ineos Germany may have done this - I hope so. It would be devastating to see Ineos go the way of Fisker…