bmw/ ineos - s58 engine (running costs out of warranty)

[pioneerofthenile]

many think this engine is a HR. one of the best engines that BMW has ever made. YO even used it in one of their cars as well.

but if this engine is so great why can you buy a pre-owned bmw that has one for such a great savings? (there's no mad rush to gobble these up) plus there's no denying that pre owned bmw prices crater something awful.

if peeps are afraid of (out of warranty) high cost repairs in a BMW why wouldn't they feel the same way with the ineos?

 

[emax]

s58 ?
HR ?
YO ?

 

[pioneerofthenile]

s58 ?
HR ?
YO ?

the s58 is the engine that the ineos comes with.

hr = home run

yo = your expression when the AC doesn't work in your new IG when delivered in the summer months. or yo 11......pay the line...or toYOta

 

[anand]

The Grenadier comes with the B58, not the S58, which is what is generally found in the M models

The depreciation and draw to the used vehicle market really can't be judged by the engine that is in the vehicle

 

[Stu_Barnes]

I know that the S58 is the high performance version of the B58 which is in the Grenadier, and the Grenadier version is specially tuned for the application.

 

[shaun]

S58 and B58 are not the same engines. B58 is regarded as highly reliable. S58 is the sport engine out of M3/M4 and such.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

BMW B58 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[pioneerofthenile]

The Grenadier comes with the B58, not the S58, which is what is generally found in the M models

The depreciation and draw to the used vehicle market really can't be judged by the engine that is in the vehicle

the ineos is a tuned 58.......and depreciation and preowned savings definitely come down to engine problems and cost of those parts associated.

bmw, LR and a few other brands lose 90% value after X amount of years. where as several other reliably built engines/ brands like Toyota and Lexus don't lose nearly as much

 

[anand]

the ineos is a tuned 58.......and depreciation and preowned savings definitely come down to engine problems and cost of those parts associated.

bmw, LR and a few other brands lose 90% value after X amount of years. where as several other reliably built engines/ brands like Toyota and Lexus don't lose nearly as much

"Lose 90% value after X amount of years" is a statement that is accurate for any vehicle, it's just that variable "X" that changes...

As Stu pointed out, the Grenadier uses a detuned B58, specifically to further improve the longevity and reliability of the engine. The B58 has won best engine in the world several times and continues to have remarkably good long term reliability, nearly as good in the long haul as the M50/M52 motors of the 90s.

Look at virtually any European vehicle, and the depreciation rate is greater than that of their Japanese counterparts. Much of this has to do with perception, initial price, and the draw to purchasing a new vehicle instead of a used vehicle. For instance, other than headlights, instrument cluster, and a few safety goodies a 2010 Toyota 4Runner is literally identical to a 2023 4Runner. It would make sense that their value depreciates more slowly because there is less "old" stuff on the used vehicle (and subsequently less "new" stuff on the new vehicle). Now compare a 2010 Audi Q7 to a 2023 Q7 and you'll see that there have been numerous updates and improvements from engine/drivetrain, to interior design and technology; thus someone in that market would most likely want the latest and greatest and would be less likely to want the 13 year old model.

Just my $0.02 from nearly 2 decades in the European automotive field....

 

[shaun]

By the way, S58 and B58 share less than 10% common parts. As Stu and anand already pointed out, Ineos is using a detuned version, which should be even more reliable than the stock B58.

 

[pioneerofthenile]

"Lose 90% value after X amount of years" is a statement that is accurate for any vehicle, it's just that variable "X" that changes...

As Stu pointed out, the Grenadier uses a detuned B58, specifically to further improve the longevity and reliability of the engine. The B58 has won best engine in the world several times and continues to have remarkably good long term reliability, nearly as good in the long haul as the M50/M52 motors of the 90s.

Look at virtually any European vehicle, and the depreciation rate is greater than that of their Japanese counterparts. Much of this has to do with perception, initial price, and the draw to purchasing a new vehicle instead of a used vehicle. For instance, other than headlights, instrument cluster, and a few safety goodies a 2010 Toyota 4Runner is literally identical to a 2023 4Runner. It would make sense that their value depreciates more slowly because there is less "old" stuff on the used vehicle (and subsequently less "new" stuff on the new vehicle). Now compare a 2010 Audi Q7 to a 2023 Q7 and you'll see that there have been numerous updates and improvements from engine/drivetrain, to interior design and technology; thus someone in that market would most likely want the latest and greatest and would be less likely to want the 13 year old model.

Just my $0.02 from nearly 2 decades in the European automotive field....

c'mon dude...most of the pre-owned bmw, LR, out of warranty cars are a crapshoot of reliability coupled with insane repair costs once something goes wrong. old tech is an inconsequential reason why they're readily available at a hugely discounted price.

I'm not going to argue s/58 b/58 or 58. I'm not even going to argue that the engine isn't a great choice in the IG. that still doesn't change the fact that the engine is a BMW. and once something goes wrong with it you have to have to take it to BMW or a mechanic that knows it, and replace it with BMW parts. sure it's not going to be a problem until the 5 yr 60k miles is over but it's still something to consider.

 

[Eric]

c'mon dude...most of the pre-owned bmw, LR, out of warranty cars are a crapshoot of reliability coupled with insane repair costs once something goes wrong. old tech is an inconsequential reason why they're readily available at a hugely discounted price.

I'm not going to argue s/58 b/58 or 58. I'm not even going to argue that the engine isn't a great choice in the IG. that still doesn't change the fact that the engine is a BMW. and once something goes wrong with it you have to have to take it to BMW or a mechanic that knows it, and replace it with BMW parts. sure it's not going to be a problem until the 5 yr 60k miles is over but it's still something to consider.

Your pessimistic outlook on life is depressing, you'd be better off social blogging on FB, rather than a dedicated forum

 

[anand]

that still doesn't change the fact that the engine is a BMW. and once something goes wrong with it you have to have to take it to BMW or a mechanic that knows it, and replace it with BMW parts. sure it's not going to be a problem until the 5 yr 60k miles is over but it's still something to consider.

I hate to point out the obvious here.... But no matter who makes an engine, when it breaks, you have to take it to someone who knows it, and replace those parts with parts made by the manufacturer (or the generic counterparts, which, believe it or not, exist everywhere in the world for a BMW engine as well as a Toyota engine).

As @Eric pointed out, going into it with this much negativity, you may as well get your reservation money back at this point

 

[Stu_Barnes]

c'mon dude...most of the pre-owned bmw, LR, out of warranty cars are a crapshoot of reliability coupled with insane repair costs once something goes wrong. old tech is an inconsequential reason why they're readily available at a hugely discounted price.

I'm not going to argue s/58 b/58 or 58. I'm not even going to argue that the engine isn't a great choice in the IG. that still doesn't change the fact that the engine is a BMW. and once something goes wrong with it you have to have to take it to BMW or a mechanic that knows it, and replace it with BMW parts. sure it's not going to be a problem until the 5 yr 60k miles is over but it's still something to consider.

@pioneerofthenile the second paragraph is true of any item of machinery the world over.

Maybe clarify what this thread is about, the coffee is still trying to work its wonder this early in the morning. Are you worried about the cost of BMW parts and the servicing costs?

 

[pioneerofthenile]

I hate to point out the obvious here.... But no matter who makes an engine, when it breaks, you have to take it to someone who knows it, and replace those parts with parts made by the manufacturer (or the generic counterparts, which, believe it or not, exist everywhere in the world for a BMW engine as well as a Toyota engine).

As @Eric pointed out, going into it with this much negativity, you may as well get your reservation money back at this point

I'm just asking questions.

and one your responses is basically telling me that out of warranty, Audi, LR, and BMW are reliable preowned vehicles.

 

[pioneerofthenile]

@pioneerofthenile the second paragraph is true of any item of machinery the world over.

Maybe clarify what this thread is about, the coffee is still trying to work its wonder this early in the morning. Are you worried about the cost of BMW parts and the servicing costs?

I am broaching these topics because it's overlooked by most. seems like many of the first people are picking up their IG have had problems and the service has been inadequate thus far

at some point everyone that buys an ineos will have to encounter fixing it, if they keep it long enough. when on that 1-5+yr scale that happens determines a lot. after that 5 years you're left with a realization. you don't know it it will be positive or negative. (it might be much sooner than 5 yrs if your experience has been bad) the jury is still out.

 

[anand]

So this begs the question @pioneerofthenile , are you ordering one?

 

[KeninNC]

I have an idea...don't buy it

 

[Stu_Barnes]

I am broaching these topics because it's overlooked by most. seems like many of the first people are picking up their IG have had problems and the service has been inadequate thus far

at some point everyone that buys an ineos will have to encounter fixing it, if they keep it long enough. when on that 1-5+yr scale that happens determines a lot. after that 5 years you're left with a realization. you don't know it it will be positive or negative. (it might be much sooner than 5 yrs if your experience has been bad) the jury is still out.

thread title changed to reflect content.

 

[bemax]

the ineos is a tuned 58.......and depreciation and preowned savings definitely come down to engine problems and cost of those parts associated.

bmw, LR and a few other brands lose 90% value after X amount of years. where as several other reliably built engines/ brands like Toyota and Lexus don't lose nearly as much

I tried to understand what you are aiming at. But- maybe for the barrier of a foreign language- I can’t get your point.