Americas Bailers?

[ADVAW8S]

I'm likely to bail on the Grenadier. I drove it a few weeks ago and it was really good, but not nearly as good as my new Defender. The driver interface, materials, and details just weren't there for me. At $50-$60K I think it'd be a winner. But the MSRP on my build is $85K. In my opinion they're not delivering enough for that amount of money. A couple weeks ago I drove a Ford Bronco Wildtrak for the first time and it was much better than the Grenadier for $20K less. A Bronco, and certainly my Defender, may not last for 30 years and be able to be fixed while crossing the Australian outback, but I don't need it to do that. I'm still very interested in the Gren but I may wait for a Gen 2 or Gen 3 version before I jump back in.

Cool and good luck.

 

[Shoogs]

I bought mine secondhand from a non Ineos dealer, they had no idea what it was or how to price it, it had 500kms on the odometer, so I bought it at a price way under what an ordered one would have cost me, I had the luxury of time to buy and I was always going to test drive and have a good look before a commitment hence no pre order. I didn't get some of the extras I may have wanted but after reading a lot on here and some research I think most I would prefer aftermarket anyway, side steps, winch, bar, roof rack etc...
Very happy with vehicle its all I expected.

 

[trobex]

I bought mine secondhand from a non Ineos dealer, they had no idea what it was or how to price it, it had 500kms on the odometer, so I bought it at a price way under what an ordered one would have cost me, I had the luxury of time to buy and I was always going to test drive and have a good look before a commitment hence no pre order. I didn't get some of the extras I may have wanted but after reading a lot on here and some research I think most I would prefer aftermarket anyway, side steps, winch, bar, roof rack etc...
Very happy with vehicle its all I expected.

In my view, this will be the best way to get a Grenadier earlier than ordering and cheaper most likely. Aim for VIN 4000s and above - they seem to have far less issues than the sub 2000s and the ones in between I cannot comment so much.

 

[trobex]

@trobex Curious, what was the lower price vs the new price?

In Australian, mine was driveaway for roughly $107K (I ordered pretty early on when reservations when live). The exact same spec Trialmaster Diesel is now $121K - I believe thereabouts.

 

[trobex]

I'm likely to bail on the Grenadier. I drove it a few weeks ago and it was really good, but not nearly as good as my new Defender. The driver interface, materials, and details just weren't there for me. At $50-$60K I think it'd be a winner. But the MSRP on my build is $85K. In my opinion they're not delivering enough for that amount of money. A couple weeks ago I drove a Ford Bronco Wildtrak for the first time and it was much better than the Grenadier for $20K less. A Bronco, and certainly my Defender, may not last for 30 years and be able to be fixed while crossing the Australian outback, but I don't need it to do that. I'm still very interested in the Gren but I may wait for a Gen 2 or Gen 3 version before I jump back in.

Comparing a Bronco with a Gren is almost comical - the Bronco is a cheap and nasty wannabe remake of an old classic. There is a reason why Ford never released it to the OZ market, because the first 100 reviews on YouTube were pretty scathing when you got past the 'poster boy' reviews. The new Defender however is actually a good vehicle, no doubt and very polished. I wouldn't tow a 3T van 25,000kms around Australia in a new Defender though - but certainly would punish the Gren in this escape of mine.

 

[Krabby]

Comparing a Bronco with a Gren is almost comical - the Bronco is a cheap and nasty wannabe remake of an old classic. There is a reason why Ford never released it to the OZ market, because the first 100 reviews on YouTube were pretty scathing when you got past the 'poster boy' reviews. The new Defender however is actually a good vehicle, no doubt and very polished. I wouldn't tow a 3T van 25,000kms around Australia in a new Defender though - but certainly would punish the Gren in this escape of mine.

I can agree in that it's a poor comparison in that they really don't fit the same segment. The Jeep and Bronco are essentially the same market, so comparing them makes tons of sense. Solid axles (although I think Bronco is IFS), low range gearbox, removable top and doors, rollcage, available as a stick, etc.

However, even without the removable parts thing, the IG doesn't fit in the same segment as the others, and although there are some common traits - general size and drivetrain - the purposes they were designed for aren't the same. Just like they shouldn't be compared to pickups - save that for the Quartermaster arguments. Jeeps/Broncos and the Grenadier might not be as different as apples and oranges, but they're certainly different breeds. Arabians and Belgian Draught horses are the same animals, but nowhere near the same thing in reality.

 

[thale10]

Comparing a Bronco with a Gren is almost comical - the Bronco is a cheap and nasty wannabe remake of an old classic. There is a reason why Ford never released it to the OZ market, because the first 100 reviews on YouTube were pretty scathing when you got past the 'poster boy' reviews. The new Defender however is actually a good vehicle, no doubt and very polished. I wouldn't tow a 3T van 25,000kms around Australia in a new Defender though - but certainly would punish the Gren in this escape of mine.

I have owned 5-6 Jeeps over the last 10 years, a 2022 Bronco Wildtrak 4 door and I also had a 2021 Defender 4 door. For me the Bronco was the best of them all. I think Ford knocked it out of the park with the Bronco design, size, off road capability etc...I did like the Defender but wish the design would have been closer to the old Defender. I agree that the Grenadier is in a different category.

 

[TSquared]

I agree that the IG is a completely different vehicle, both build and purpose. I love that fact that it is an uncompromised old school "pure-play." I'm so looking forward to taking delivery! That said, as a current owner of a Bronco Badlands for the past two years, I can attest that it apologizes to no one and is a highly capable 4x4. It may not be built with a 25 to 30 year lifespan like the IG or TLC, but I have rock-climbed, forded streams and driven dunes with the Bronco and it is the real deal.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

I agree that the IG is a completely different vehicle, both build and purpose. I love that fact that it is an uncompromised old school "pure-play." I'm so looking forward to taking delivery! That said, as a current owner of a Bronco Badlands for the past two years, I can attest that it apologizes to no one and is a highly capable 4x4. It may not be built with a 25 to 30 year lifespan like the IG or TLC, but I have rock-climbed, forded streams and driven dunes with the Bronco and it is the real deal.

Don’t hit a deer with it.
The front fascia and core support are tissue paper.

 

[TSquared]

Don’t hit a deer with it.
The front fascia and core support are tissue paper.

Hence the steel bumper with brush guard...

 

[trobex]

Don’t hit a deer with it.
The front fascia and core support are tissue paper.

The reviewers I see smoke the Bronco for its poor overall rigidity, cheap fitments falling off such a cloth on roof etc. I still love its design intent and aesthetics. It's an old school remake - and it hit its market but I would never touch one. I put my Grens rear left wheel on a 300mm high stand just to see if there is any chassis twist - none that I can tell is ultra rigid. Super happy with that. Just very different vehicles and the pedigree of parts used in the Gren is right up there.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

I am just commenting on the level of front end damage on my friend’s bronco after hitting a white tailed deer with it.
$7,000 in damage.
A square hit crumpled the entire front and ripped off the plastic.

It has good fuel economy though.

 

[YellowLab]

I am just commenting on the level of front end damage on my friend’s bronco after hitting a white tailed deer with it.
$7,000 in damage.
A square hit crumpled the entire front and ripped off the plastic.

It has good fuel economy though.

wonder what kind of medical bills the white tail is facing?

 

[Tazzieman]

wonder what kind of medical bills the white tail is facing?

I have no eye deer, but I herd it's already lawyered up to recoup costs.

 

[YellowLab]

I have no eye deer, but I herd it's already lawyered up to recoup costs.

Hopefully the deer had some doe to spend; more than a few bucks on doctors billls

 

[trobex]

Hopefully the deer had some doe to spend; more than a few bucks on doctors billls

Probably lucky he didn't hit a Bronco...

 

[Cheshire cat]

Interesting trend I'm seeing over the last few days - about 10 folks I know whom have ordered the vehicle are opting not to take delivery for a myriad of reasons. Build issues, price, other options, risk of high depreciation - etc. These are all VERY thoughtful/smart people whom I've met here and other places that at the end decided to end their journey at this point; couple said they may wait for the next model release for more 'gremlin removal.'

Curious to hear what others are noticing as well - as one person I'm a small sample - but are others seeing the same thing? Might open up some room for negotiating with the dealers if we see many unallocated vehicles for sale at the dealers.

I would guess the real reason for most cancelled orders will be financial. Even if one has the cash, it is a lot of money to invest without a bit of faith or a knowledge of what you want to buy.
Second reason in my opinion. This is not a city car and requires open country to get the best from it.
Dealerships in UK have also had cancelled orders. Likely a sign of the times as everything is going up in price. For people like myself, residuals are quite low on the priority list as my vehicle unlikely to leave my ownership for a long time.

 

[FlyingTrotter]

I would guess the real reason for most cancelled orders will be financial. Even if one has the cash, it is a lot of money to invest without a bit of faith or a knowledge of what you want to buy.
Second reason in my opinion. This is not a city car and requires open country to get the best from it.
Dealerships in UK have also had cancelled orders. Likely a sign of the times as everything is going up in price. For people like myself, residuals are quite low on the priority list as my vehicle unlikely to leave my ownership for a long time.

I suspect you are right to a large degree - it’s a little while now since I cancelled my order and as I reflect back I think a lot is to do with the balance between on road and off road ability - I had no intention to travel across Southern Africa or Overland in the Australian style - I shoot a number of days a season and I fish which means driving off road but in each case I am “challenging “ a vehicle to a very limited degree

the IG seems to be set up to tackle more arduous conditions at the expense of an ability to comfortably address the less arduous

it’s plainly what many on here want in a vehicle and that is great but for my use needs the balance isn’t right

for those ordering early the price (in the GBP 60ks as I understand it) seems like a reasonable price for the vehicle ( issues resolved ) but the price now starts to get a little more challenging to rationalise (GBP creeping up over 80k)

I hope the project succeeds - I would not pop back to this forum periodically if I wasn’t to a degree supportive and I definitely applaud the many owners who have stoically put up with the various issues (including the foot wash for the door seals) - INDEOS are very fortunate to have so many understanding early adopters

 

[Cheshire cat]

I suspect you are right to a large degree - it’s a little while now since I cancelled my order and as I reflect back I think a lot is to do with the balance between on road and off road ability - I had no intention to travel across Southern Africa or Overland in the Australian style - I shoot a number of days a season and I fish which means driving off road but in each case I am “challenging “ a vehicle to a very limited degree

the IG seems to be set up to tackle more arduous conditions at the expense of an ability to comfortably address the less arduous

it’s plainly what many on here want in a vehicle and that is great but for my use needs the balance isn’t right

for those ordering early the price (in the GBP 60ks as I understand it) seems like a reasonable price for the vehicle ( issues resolved ) but the price now starts to get a little more challenging to rationalise (GBP creeping up over 80k)

I hope the project succeeds - I would not pop back to this forum periodically if I wasn’t to a degree supportive and I definitely applaud the many owners who have stoically put up with the various issues (including the foot wash for the door seals) - INDEOS are very fortunate to have so many understanding early adopters

Very well put and best of luck with whatever you choose.

 

[Mr.Espresso]

You Brits really are very polite!!!

Us in the colonies could learn something from you guys!!!