Americas Bailers?

[Krabby]

. From what I have found/been told, the taillights are the same between RoW and North America, which means the body control module flashes the brake LEDs for turn instead of flashing the yellow "turn" LEDs.

.

So the rears in NA already have the ability to blink amber?

 

[Tom109]

So the rears in NA already have the ability to blink amber?

Good question. And, since it not a US regulation, can we activate the yellow?

 

[anand]

So the rears in NA already have the ability to blink amber?

Good question. And, since it not a US regulation, can we activate the yellow?

Allegedly, they have the LEDs in them to blink yellow, 100% confirmation would require someone with a US vehicle (or access to a dealer parts catalog) to compare part numbers... Activation of this would require recoding in the BCM.

Assuming this is similar to the other European manufacturers, expect it to be 1-2 years before someone figures out an end-user software tool and the required coding changes... Perhaps if enough of us push for it Kufatec will start producing dongles to reprogram the required settings on the Grenadier for all sorts of stuff. They have been making VW/Audi recoding/programming devices for probably 20 years and I have used a plethora of their devices to recode and enhance stuff on the Sprinter (5 blink turn signal, different boot logo on the infotainment, DEF range, folding mirrors with lock/unlock, ignition-persistent lane keep assist status, etc)

 

[Krabby]

Allegedly, they have the LEDs in them to blink yellow, 100% confirmation would require someone with a US vehicle (or access to a dealer parts catalog) to compare part numbers... Activation of this would require recoding in the BCM.

Assuming this is similar to the other European manufacturers, expect it to be 1-2 years before someone figures out an end-user software tool and the required coding changes... Perhaps if enough of us push for it Kufatec will start producing dongles to reprogram the required settings on the Grenadier for all sorts of stuff. They have been making VW/Audi recoding/programming devices for probably 20 years and I have used a plethora of their devices to recode and enhance stuff on the Sprinter (5 blink turn signal, different boot logo on the infotainment, DEF range, folding mirrors with lock/unlock, ignition-persistent lane keep assist status, etc)

Would it make more sense to try and entice places that deal with BMWs - making the assumption that some of the brainpower in the Grenadier is courtesy of the Bavarians.

 

[anand]

Would it make more sense to try and entice places that deal with BMWs - making the assumption that some of the brainpower in the Grenadier is courtesy of the Bavarians.

From what I've been told, the brainpower is not BMW, at least not the scan tools

 

[Krabby]

From what I've been told, the brainpower is not BMW

Oh. Obviously a poor assumption on my part. Do you think the stuff behind the scenes is off the shelf like everything else? If so, you’d have to think code to fix stuff is already out there somewhere.

 

[anand]

Oh. Obviously a poor assumption on my part. Do you think the stuff behind the scenes is off the shelf like everything else? If so, you’d have to think code to fix stuff is already out there somewhere.

While things are from known manufacturers, not a lot is truly "off the shelf" and is bespoke (The Recaros are specific to the Grenadier, the Brembos are specific, Eibach made the springs specifically for the vehicle, etc).

To create a vehicle with such few control modules is such a sharp departure from the status quo, that I would imagine nothing with the body control module, ICE, or scan tools directly crosses with anything else (other than the modules and software being produced by Bosch). The few bits I've seen suggest that the required recoding of modules only currently exists from an engineer standpoint, and nothing that is available to dealers or the end user. As with so many other brands, the version of the factory scan tool that I've seen used requires internet connectivity and valid user log-ins. Of course, this isn't to say that those are required to read or clear DTCs, those functions are more or less generic.

 

[Tom109]

Maybe if they revert to amber turn signals they could cure the trailer hitch wiring issue stalling all our Grens at the Ports?

 

[anand]

Maybe if they revert to amber turn signals they could cure the trailer hitch wiring issue stalling all our Grens at the Ports?

Possibly? Or perhaps it has more to do with the fact that RoW uses separate turn signal outputs on their trailer plugs

 

[thale10]

I am happy people are bailing. I have a December build and March delivery but my dealer has an exact match to my build that someone bailed on. Picking it up in a week or 2.

I love the fact that this is a niche vehicle and not something you see everyday on the road. I live in a city of 100k people and probably won't see another one. If I buy the new landcruiser I will see 40 of them.

 

[reauxheaux]

Eyes bigger than their stomachs for a lot of early buyers. They got to own a Grenadier without owning a Grenadier. No doubt some have seen something they don't like, but no one made this reservation 2 years ago and is being won over this late by crossshopping.

 

[MTNDOG]

Eyes bigger than their stomachs for a lot of early buyers. They got to own a Grenadier without owning a Grenadier. No doubt some have seen something they don't like, but no one made this reservation 2 years ago and is being won over this late by crossshopping.

I can't be the only one still cross shopping? Got my VIN the other day, but I was still mildly interested in a Jeep Gladiator Mojave 6 speed last week as well, brand new $15k off MSRP. For the price I was offered, I would almost be able to buy 2 jeeps for the MSRP on my Grenadier. Car shopping on the Internet is a horrible disease.

-HVAC issues and water intrusion would be my reason to bail at this point.

 

[Tom109]

I can't be the only one still cross shopping? Got my VIN the other day, but I was still mildly interested in a Jeep Gladiator Mojave 6 speed last week as well, brand new $15k off MSRP. For the price I was offered, I would almost be able to buy 2 jeeps for the MSRP on my Grenadier. Car shopping on the Internet is a horrible disease.

-HVAC issues and water intrusion would be my reason to bail at this point.

Nothing else on the market appeals to me. I’m in for the long haul. Nothing from ford, cheby or stellantis will ever sit in my garage either.

 

[reauxheaux]

-HVAC issues and water intrusion would be my reason to bail at this point.

I'm going to guess you have never owned a Jeep if you think this problem is solved by buying a Jeep.

 

[anand]

-HVAC issues and water intrusion would be my reason to bail at this point.

HVAC has been sorted a while ago... The water intrusion has also been sorted for the MY24s

 

[trobex]

Interesting trend I'm seeing over the last few days - about 10 folks I know whom have ordered the vehicle are opting not to take delivery for a myriad of reasons. Build issues, price, other options, risk of high depreciation - etc. These are all VERY thoughtful/smart people whom I've met here and other places that at the end decided to end their journey at this point; couple said they may wait for the next model release for more 'gremlin removal.'

Curious to hear what others are noticing as well - as one person I'm a small sample - but are others seeing the same thing? Might open up some room for negotiating with the dealers if we see many unallocated vehicles for sale at the dealers.

Ok - I'll go. I'm a person who hates laziness, flawed works when it could otherwise have been fixed, quality issues etc, poor design for basic stuff that has been around for 40 or more years.
I would be one of the people to cancel an order if I thought the vehicle being delivered would fall below my levels of expectation, the purpose of the vehicle fell below what was offered or such issues arise that would leave me unable to rely of the vehicle long term.

To date I have no reason at all to think the vehicle delivered has met most of my expectations.

There are several issues with the cabin design that just don't make sense.. tilt and reach is not sufficient, RHD footwell is my no.1 gripe it is a piss poor effort by Jim and Co to let that go, water ingress from for seals both top and bottom is annoying, there is no storage space in the cabin for phones and cup holders are for toddlers cups at best etc etc. There is a big list of minor dumb design outcomes. Ground clearance is less than expected for stated off road prowess.

However, the vehicle's driveability is excellent, cargo space excellent, on road driving comfort is excellent, engine perfomance excellent, visibility is great (Rear window - what view?). The list of pros in my view far outweigh the cons.

It also seems evident to me that more recent builds have a superior finish overall. From plastics to trims to panel fitments to internal cloth and electrics included. I'm on the 4500s for VIN and compared to the first 1500 or so manufactured units I have maybe a third of the issues and not detrimental (@Jean Mercier @Logsplitter )

Simple summary. Would I buy a Grenadier knowing what I know from my current vehicle - YES. Plain as that. Would I buy it at the new price tag probably not!!! I got in early on the lower costs, so that makes it easy to like the truck. At the new price point I would have to consider.

 

[MTNDOG]

I'm going to guess you have never owned a Jeep if you think this problem is solved by buying a Jeep.

Buying a jeep brings a whole different set of trade-offs and expectations. HVAC issues are unacceptable to any of us, in any car at any price range. A clutch issue that may cause the Gladiator to burst into flames is another unacceptable issue, but I think that must have been solved by now. Water leaks on a removable roof vehicle, some what expected. But, a convertible pick-up with a six speed manual transmission would like be almost as rare as my Magic Mushroom Grenadier.

HVAC has been sorted a while ago... The water intrusion has also been sorted for the MY24s.

The Grenadier should be golden then, VIN number received and April ETA.

 

[Roach]

@trobex Curious, what was the lower price vs the new price?

 

[Tom109]

I can't be the only one still cross shopping? Got my VIN the other day, but I was still mildly interested in a Jeep Gladiator Mojave 6 speed last week as well, brand new $15k off MSRP. For the price I was offered, I would almost be able to buy 2 jeeps for the MSRP on my Grenadier. Car shopping on the Internet is a horrible disease.

-HVAC issues and water intrusion would be my reason to bail at this point.

Nothing else on the market appeals to me. I’m in for the long haul. Nothing from ford, cheby or stellantis will ever sit in my garage either.

I will edit this to say Ineos has to fix the "Clicking and Speed Warning" ADAS issue for NA vehicles. That will not be acceptable here.

 

[Donny]

I'm likely to bail on the Grenadier. I drove it a few weeks ago and it was really good, but not nearly as good as my new Defender. The driver interface, materials, and details just weren't there for me. At $50-$60K I think it'd be a winner. But the MSRP on my build is $85K. In my opinion they're not delivering enough for that amount of money. A couple weeks ago I drove a Ford Bronco Wildtrak for the first time and it was much better than the Grenadier for $20K less. A Bronco, and certainly my Defender, may not last for 30 years and be able to be fixed while crossing the Australian outback, but I don't need it to do that. I'm still very interested in the Gren but I may wait for a Gen 2 or Gen 3 version before I jump back in.