The Grenadier Forum
Register Now for enhanced site access.
INEOS Agents, Dealers or Commercial vendors please contact admin@theineosforum.com for a commercial account.

Auxiliary LEDs - Lightbars, Lights, Pods

DaBull

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
6:39 AM
Joined
Dec 28, 2022
Messages
1,411
Reaction score
2,713
Location
California
While the force placed upon each vehicle would be equal, the respective resulting accelerations would not be equal. MASS COMES INTO PLAY! (Newton's Second Law) Where p=mv (momentum = mass x velocity).

If a Grenadier is traveling at 100 kph (27.78 meters per sec) it's momentum has a value of 75,006 kg-mps (2700 kg x 27.78 mps), whereas a Mazda Miata/MX5 also traveling 100 kph has a momentum of 30,308 kg-mps (1091 kg x 27.78 mps) (again, it's way more complicated than this, put for all intents and purposes the force is equivalent but where things end up is not). I believe in order for these two vehicles to "rebound" the same distance (which I think would essentially be a dead stop), the Miata has to be traveling around 250 kph!

Edit -I'm not a physicist but play one on TV

Second edit - from HERE
"...Newton's third law of motion is naturally applied to collisions between two objects. In a collision between two objects, both objects experience forces that are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction. Such forces often cause one object to speed up (gain momentum) and the other object to slow down (lose momentum). According to Newton's third law, the forces on the two objects are equal in magnitude. While the forces are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction, the accelerations of the objects are not necessarily equal in magnitude. In accord with Newton's second law of motion, the acceleration of an object is dependent upon both force and mass. Thus, if the colliding objects have unequal mass, they will have unequal accelerations as a result of the contact force that results during the collision.

u4l2a2.gif
Consider the collision between the club head and the golf ball in the sport of golf. When the club head of a moving golf club collides with a golf ball at rest upon a tee, the force experienced by the club head is equal to the force experienced by the golf ball. Most observers of this collision have difficulty with this concept because they perceive the high speed given to the ball as the result of the collision. They are not observing unequal forces upon the ball and club head, but rather unequal accelerations. Both club head and ball experience equal forces, yet the ball experiences a greater acceleration due to its smaller mass. In a collision, there is a force on both objects that causes an acceleration of both objects. The forces are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction, yet the least massive object receives the greatest acceleration."

Third edit - please tell me where have a physicist (or physics teacher) here who can explain this for real. I think what I am saying is correct, but Physics 201 was 30 years ago!
I am not worthy, a big bow of respect! DaBull
 

marcusnilsson

Grenadier Owner
Local time
3:39 PM
Joined
Dec 20, 2023
Messages
118
Reaction score
211
Location
Sweden
With wires thick enough, 2.5 qmm at a minimum or 24 V. The wire of the light bar is thick, very thick, I assume 2,5 qmm.

I'll check that and post a picture of the cable this evening.

AWo

I thought we were limited to 12V and 25A, I still have a lot to learn re the electrics of the car. Please post of how you install it as I’m looking for a good solution myself. Both for 50+ inch led-bar and powerful front lights.
 

AWo

Local time
3:39 PM
Joined
Feb 28, 2023
Messages
1,090
Reaction score
2,064
Location
Germany
If there is a restriction put in new cables.

AWo
 

marcusnilsson

Grenadier Owner
Local time
3:39 PM
Joined
Dec 20, 2023
Messages
118
Reaction score
211
Location
Sweden
If there is a restriction put in new cables.

AWo

New fuse + new cable and we’re good to go then I assume. Interesting!

I found this sticker by the 12V outlet in the cargo area. 320W sounds very low, and is easily surpassed by lights alone.

Does anyone know what this is referring to?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0096.jpeg
    IMG_0096.jpeg
    1.3 MB · Views: 111

minidok

#00833
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
3:39 PM
Joined
Aug 9, 2022
Messages
192
Reaction score
235
Location
Zürich, Schweiz
New fuse + new cable and we’re good to go then I assume. Interesting!

I found this sticker by the 12V outlet in the cargo area. 320W sounds very low, and is easily surpassed by lights alone.

Does anyone know what this is referring to?
front and rear outlet referred as A and B, do allow a max load of 320W overall. Connector is rated 10A so continues current 12*10 = 120W is the limit for such a single 12Vdc car outlet.
 

marcusnilsson

Grenadier Owner
Local time
3:39 PM
Joined
Dec 20, 2023
Messages
118
Reaction score
211
Location
Sweden
front and rear outlet referred as A and B, do allow a max load of 320W overall. Connector is rated 10A so continues current 12*10 = 120W is the limit for such a single 12Vdc car outlet.
Which outlets are included in this limitation? 12V in the cargo area + 12V+usb a/c in the glove box + usb a/c in the rear seats?

And how can the max load be 320W if the fuse is 10A (=120W)?

Sorry for the total lack of knowledge on the topic. I will try to search for more info on how Ohms law works in real life…
 

Tazzieman

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Founding Guard
Local time
1:39 AM
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
6,978
Reaction score
13,834
Location
Tasmania
Which outlets are included in this limitation? 12V in the cargo area + 12V+usb a/c in the glove box + usb a/c in the rear seats?

And how can the max load be 320W if the fuse is 10A (=120W)?
Devices often have a spike in current when started up.
The circuit accounts for this, if not the fuse would just blow.
Continuous overload would blow the fuse.
 

AnD3rew

Inch deep and a mile wide.
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
1:39 AM
Joined
Aug 24, 2022
Messages
2,440
Reaction score
6,050
Which outlets are included in this limitation? 12V in the cargo area + 12V+usb a/c in the glove box + usb a/c in the rear seats?

And how can the max load be 320W if the fuse is 10A (=120W)?

Sorry for the total lack of knowledge on the topic. I will try to search for more info on how Ohms law works in real life…
We didn’t get the inverter but my assumption is that the two domestic plug points are what is included in the 320w inverter max watts. Amps and watts are different things and don’t necessarily have a fixed relationship because you need to factor in resistance as well. Need to use Ohms law.
 

K1LL3M

Grenadier Owner
Local time
1:39 AM
Joined
May 21, 2023
Messages
159
Reaction score
371
Location
AUSTRALIA
I thought we were limited to 12V and 25A, I still have a lot to learn re the electrics of the car. Please post of how you install it as I’m looking for a good solution myself. Both for 50+ inch led-bar and powerful front lights.
The 52" ST4K stedi light bar satisfies the 25a restriction and turns night into day.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20240118_201756_Gallery.jpg
    Screenshot_20240118_201756_Gallery.jpg
    500.3 KB · Views: 104

DenisM

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
12:39 AM
Joined
Jan 26, 2022
Messages
2,232
Reaction score
4,444
Location
Brisbane, Queensland Australia
Per
Which outlets are included in this limitation? 12V in the cargo area + 12V+usb a/c in the glove box + usb a/c in the rear seats?

And how can the max load be 320W if the fuse is 10A (=120W)?

Sorry for the total lack of knowledge on the topic. I will try to search for more info on how Ohms law works in real life…
The front 12V outlet controlled by fuse FC21 and is 15A (180W nominal)
Rear 12V outlet controlled by fuse FC23 and is also 15A
 
Local time
2:39 PM
Joined
Apr 27, 2023
Messages
371
Reaction score
360
Location
Lanark, Scotland
And how can the max load be 320W if the fuse is 10A (=120W)?

Sorry for the total lack of knowledge on the topic. I will try to search for more info on how Ohms law works in real life…

Volts x Amps = Watts.
The Grenadier is a 12V (nominal) car, the battery is likely to be around 12,5V and when the engine is over (as an example) 1500rpm, the voltage will be around (probably just below) 14.5V

The wire that carries the voltage from the battery to the socket will have a resistance.
That resistance consumes a small amount of Amps and lowers the voltage typically by 3%.
When a wire eats Amps it gets hot.
To stop the wire getting so hot it melts the plastic covering and sets fire to other combustible materials that your car contains there is a fuse.
A fuse is 'rated' at a given current and is essentially a piece of soft wire contained in a heatproof box that will melt when its given too many Amps.

The fuse is "rated" at approx 66% of its load. This means that a 10Amp fuse will not get hot enough to melt until more than 13Amps tries to get through it.
The fuse is also tolerant of a spike in power which means it can cope with 13A but not for long (a second or three) but it will melt pretty quickly is 20Amps went through it.
The cable on this circuit is a little more robust than the fuse, it is 'rated' at 15Amps so it will cope with 20Amps for a few seconds but will start to heat up and glow if its is subject to 3 times its rated load.
Put 30Amps through it and it will get warm, put 45Amps through it and it will get hot enough to melt the plastic insulation and set fire to anything nearby.

To keep things simple and to add a small margin of safety, components for cars are specified in Watts relative to 12V.
A 120W lamp will need a (rated) 10Amp supply.
When the car is running that lamp will likely only take 8.2Amps and when the engine is off it will take 9.2Amps, this is the margin for error. You have read the instructions and have connected the lamp to a rated 10Amp supply so your car isn't going to burst into flames.
If you had 2 outlets connected using a common wire to the battery and that common wire was rated @ 20Amps then it would be sensible to label each outlet to say 10Amps max....

The most practical example of Ohms law in real life is the lightbulb.
A piece of wire that gets so hot that it gives off light. Turn on a lightbulb (not an LED) and then hold it in your hand.
If you reduce the amount of Amps the light will reduce, to reduce the amount of Amps you put a resistor in the circuit.
Use a variable resistor and you have just invented a dimmer switch.
Put a variable resistor between a 'frequency varying voltage' and a loud speaker and you have a volume knob.
 

K1LL3M

Grenadier Owner
Local time
1:39 AM
Joined
May 21, 2023
Messages
159
Reaction score
371
Location
AUSTRALIA
Did you use the Stedi mounts for the Rhino Rack? I'm considering the 42" ST4K...
Yes. I originally tried to mount it under rack to be level with the front, but there is just not enough room for the double row light bar. I had to ad the extensions that come with it and mount in front. It looks sweet, especially with the optional cover on, so I am certainly not disappointed.

Question though, why are you only going 42" ?
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20240118_231907_Gallery.jpg
    Screenshot_20240118_231907_Gallery.jpg
    817.3 KB · Views: 96

Tom109

Grenadier Owner
Local time
9:39 AM
Joined
Jun 3, 2023
Messages
1,627
Reaction score
2,264
Location
New Jersey, USA
Yes. I originally tried to mount it under rack to be level with the front, but there is just not enough room for the double row light bar. I had to ad the extensions that come with it and mount in front. It looks sweet, especially with the optional cover on, so I am certainly not disappointed.

Question though, why are you only going 42" ?
I get automatically rerouted to stediusa web site, where it doesn't list the 52". Seeing your Gren I think I do want 52"!
 

K1LL3M

Grenadier Owner
Local time
1:39 AM
Joined
May 21, 2023
Messages
159
Reaction score
371
Location
AUSTRALIA
I get automatically rerouted to stediusa web site, where it doesn't list the 52". Seeing your Gren I think I do want 52"!
Here is the direct link to the light bar in Aus if it helps

Sorry, I've got nothing for US supply
 

Tom109

Grenadier Owner
Local time
9:39 AM
Joined
Jun 3, 2023
Messages
1,627
Reaction score
2,264
Location
New Jersey, USA
Here is the direct link to the light bar in Aus if it helps

Sorry, I've got nothing for US supply
Stedi auto-routes me to a 404 error on the stediusa.com web site. I cannot load their .au web pages anymore???
 
Local time
2:39 PM
Joined
Apr 27, 2023
Messages
371
Reaction score
360
Location
Lanark, Scotland
Interestingly, the 52" STAK light bar is rated @ 23.2Amps @ 13.6V

This means 26.33Amps @ 12V.
Or 'out of spec' for the pedantics/lawyers but (probably) OK for the realists (who would only turn it on with the engine running anyway)...
 
Back
Top Bottom