15% price increase? Bulls**t

[FlyingTexan]

As I understand it, Rivian increased the price to order holders after taking deposits but before delivering any vehicles. There was a big fuss, and they reversed the decision. Where's the comparison with what Ineos have done?



I'd be happy to know where they said that, it's certainly passed me by...

Rivian was more than just the fuss about orders already placed. Many saw it as a complete reversal of their marketing statements. Ineos, again, at the height of Covid lacked the foresight to bake in the manufacturing costs? Seems a little odd they could pull that pricing off then vs now. Truth is they threw out a number they never intended to hold onto for the publicity of people like myself and others spreading the word for them.

Watch videos on YouTube with the reps stating they were going to cap reservations at 15k. I saw it multiple times and read it in article from last year. I’m not going to spoon feed you you’ll have to learn how to use google like everyone else.

 

[FlyingTexan]

Shipping is literally the cheapest it’s been in two years. So what shipping cost are they referring to now that didn’t exist when they were talking pricing at the absolute peak of everything? Either A) someone there should be fired for never considering it in the first place or B) it’s just a lie they’re using to up costs. They’ve literally been producing, acquiring parts, and doing their market planning when everything was higher. But now after they’ve already got the likes going, pricing has dropped dramatically, and components are more readily available they’re saying now is when the numbers can’t be maintained? This is like the airlines telling you ATC, Weather, or because of a govt reg because it saves face for them then they’re not liable for you or your baggage. Sorry but this 15% increase is BS. The parts they’re using had already been acquired and shipping costs have dropped dramatically.

 

[ECrider]

Think you should change your username to PissedoffTexan

 

[bemax]

View attachment 7795952
Shipping is literally the cheapest it’s been in two years. So what shipping cost are they referring to now that didn’t exist when they were talking pricing at the absolute peak of everything? Either A) someone there should be fired for never considering it in the first place or B) it’s just a lie they’re using to up costs. They’ve literally been producing, acquiring parts, and doing their market planning when everything was higher. But now after they’ve already got the likes going, pricing has dropped dramatically, and components are more readily available they’re saying now is when the numbers can’t be maintained? This is like the airlines telling you ATC, Weather, or because of a govt reg because it saves face for them then they’re not liable for you or your baggage. Sorry but this 15% increase is BS. The parts they’re using had already been acquired and shipping costs have dropped dramatically

The US inflation was 7,7 % last week.
The energy prices might go down in the USA but not in Europe if you compare them with prices from last year.
Many factories have still the fixed prices for energy from the last contract but will have a rise of 100 % or more from January.
So the inflation for the products needed to build a car will keep on rising for some time.
The Grenadier is not made in the USA but in Europe where we have to take care for other challenges than you have to.

One thing which is a easy help to understand why they have to rise the prices is that the have quite a lot pre orders. There is no arrogance in it. Just math.
If your factory is full with contracts for one year you have to rise the prices do that you make money with next years inflation included.
I can’t see how it should work in another way. It’s obviously

 

[DCPU]

View attachment 7795952
Shipping is literally the cheapest it’s been in two years. So what shipping cost are they referring to now that didn’t exist when they were talking pricing at the absolute peak of everything?

You know the vehicles aren't being shipped in containers...

We have a thread that might help you with that (it might be deemed rude to ask you to Google it):

Aussie 🇦🇺 bound Grenadiers in Zeebrugge!

From LinkedIn today.

www.theineosforum.com

Added to that:

 

[DaveB]

View attachment 7795952
Shipping is literally the cheapest it’s been in two years. So what shipping cost are they referring to now that didn’t exist when they were talking pricing at the absolute peak of everything? Either A) someone there should be fired for never considering it in the first place or B) it’s just a lie they’re using to up costs. They’ve literally been producing, acquiring parts, and doing their market planning when everything was higher. But now after they’ve already got the likes going, pricing has dropped dramatically, and components are more readily available they’re saying now is when the numbers can’t be maintained? This is like the airlines telling you ATC, Weather, or because of a govt reg because it saves face for them then they’re not liable for you or your baggage. Sorry but this 15% increase is BS. The parts they’re using had already been acquired and shipping costs have dropped dramatically.

Not sure if you are aware but cars aren't shipped in containers
They are shipped in RORO ships.

 

[painter]

Was it not because of the issue with LAWYERS? Something to do with Land Rover USA getting all antsy? Let alone other many other laws that have to be appeased.
USA has a love affair with # lawyers. In the eyes of the world they appear to run the country.

Maybe Sir Jim bumped into Mr Mahindra at the club ... err "pub"... and had a frank and enlightening chat about the joys of a foreign mfr attempting to enter the USA vehicle market.

Perhaps, the conclusion might have been, better to have this IA project be a success in the 'rest of the world' first - and perhaps only - than increasing the overall risk with attendant opposition from the US Auto Industry.

Which btw, if it happens to help the US auto worker might also help the Canadian auto worker which is not necessarily a bad thing IMO.

At this point Sir Jim may well have #1 sitting in his driveway. Reason enough to be chuffed.

"So far so good", says he ...

 

[Cheshire cat]

Just specced my vehicle up using the new price list. Old price £64,300,00 - New price £70,100,00

Maths not my strongest point but that doesn’t look like a 15% increase.

 

[FlyingTexan]

The US inflation was 7,7 % last week.
The energy prices might go down in the USA but not in Europe if you compare them with prices from last year.
Many factories have still the fixed prices for energy from the last contract but will have a rise of 100 % or more from January.
So the inflation for the products needed to build a car will keep on rising for some time.
The Grenadier is not made in the USA but in Europe where we have to take care for other challenges than you have to.

One thing which is a easy help to understand why they have to rise the prices is that the have quite a lot pre orders. There is no arrogance in it. Just math.
If your factory is full with contracts for one year you have to rise the prices do that you make money with next years inflation included.
I can’t see how it should work in another way. It’s obviously

Inflation numbers are not by the week it's a year long lookback. Inflation based on what? Just saying inflation doesn't do much. There's tons of variables they look at. They didn't mention energy pricing for their facilities in their reasoning.

 

[FlyingTexan]

Not sure if you are aware but cars aren't shipped in containers
They are shipped in RORO ships.

No kidding. But cost to move something is still relative and if the cost to move a container from A to B is the lowest it's been in two years then the cost to move something else is still going be lower regardless of what it is so long as the ship stays the same.

 

[Sebastian]

Just specced my vehicle up using the new price list. Old price £64,300,00 - New price £70,100,00

Maths not my strongest point but that doesn’t look like a 15% increase.

same here, different numbers but % roughly the same

 

[DCPU]

They didn't mention energy pricing for their facilities in their reasoning.

They absolutely did.

 

[DCPU]

No kidding. But cost to move something is still relative and if the cost to move a container from A to B is the lowest it's been in two years then the cost to move something else is still going be lower regardless of what it is so long as the ship stays the same.

As you seem to have missed the words...here's a picture:

 

[Cheshire cat]

Beginning to wonder what the point of this thread really is.
On a slightly different note but still related to price. Have you seen the cost of re-built Defenders on Arkonic or Twisted websites? £200,000 not uncommon. WTF!!

 

[FlyingTexan]

You know the vehicles aren't being shipped in containers...

We have a thread that might help you with that (it might be deemed rude to ask you to Google it):

Aussie 🇦🇺 bound Grenadiers in Zeebrugge!

From LinkedIn today.

www.theineosforum.com

Added to that:

View attachment 7795960

Guess when the bottom falls out following in lag to the shipping market they'll drop prices then?

 

[FlyingTexan]

As you seem to have missed the words...here's a picture:
View attachment 7795962

Yea so how does that translate to the value of a vehicle? you order a $100k model and it cost more to ship than a $65k one? Do they drop the pricing when the shipping pricing drops (which it will rather soon)? Why don't they just keep the cost where they said it would then charge for shipping like other manufacturers? This is a $$$ move.

 

[ECrider]

Thank goodness we have a choice. You like, you buy. You don't, you don't.

 

[bemax]

Inflation numbers are not by the week it's a year long lookback. Inflation based on what? Just saying inflation doesn't do much. There's tons of variables they look at. They didn't mention energy pricing for their facilities in their reasoning.

I would guess that energy prices are the biggest part of inflation. In special in the second and third round.
What did you think is the driver off the rising prices.

 

[Shaky]

FlyingTexan it is abundantly clear that this is all causing you some angst. Would you now possibly be better off looking to the mantra of a lot of Americans and buying “American”.

 

[Tazzieman]

FlyingTexan it is abundantly clear that this is all causing you some angst. Would you now possibly be better off looking to the mantra of a lot of Americans and buying “American”.

Or LDV. They make an apparently rugged and cheap 4x4