Land Rover feeling the Heat?

AWo · Aug 6, 2024

Somewhat late due to holiday, but at least....

German official statistics of new car registrations from the KBA year-to-month-end June 2024
JLR New Defender: 1769 (+223)
JLR Discovery: 282 (+70)
JLR Range Rover: 757 (+188)
JLR Land Rover all-in-all: 6685

Ineos: 438 (+59)
Decreasing trend was stopped in June, registrations slightly increased.

N1 are included in these numbers.

AWo · Oct 8, 2024

German official statistics of new car registrations from the KBA year-to-month-end September 2024
JLR New Defender: 2341 (+211)
JLR Discovery: 353 (+20)
JLR Range Rover: 1152 (+73)
JLR Land Rover all-in-all: 9296 (+750)

Ineos: 392 (+23 M1)

N1 are NOT included in these numbers, these follow on 10-14-2024.

The UK saw 61 new Grenadier registrations. JLR registered 10807 new vehicles in September (8993 Land Rover).

AWo

ANNML · Oct 12, 2024

I’ve wondered about stats like this ever since LR introduced the new Defender. Don’t mean mean to offend anyone who owns the new version but to this day, I can’t fathom the direction they went. It blows my mind! I recall a press release stating the new design was “honoring the rugged look” of the old version — um WHAT?! The new one makes me think of a puffed out Range Rover — no wow factor whatsoever, rather it looks like everything else out there. And I wondered if they thought anyone who owned the epic version would look at the new one and think “cool redesign”. IMO nothing about the new one referenced anything about the old one, let alone “honoring” it. End rant.

Zimm · Oct 12, 2024

Actually I think it’s a nice looking car with great materials, fit and finish, and very ergonomic. I just wouldnt wanna drive something house frau in the neighborhood has. I have a macho reputation to uphold, and it gets tougher the older I look. At this rate I’ll be driving a Z06 before the decade is out.

Tomdoc · Oct 12, 2024

ANNML said:
I’ve wondered about stats like this ever since LR introduced the new Defender. Don’t mean mean to offend anyone who owns the new version but to this day, I can’t fathom the direction they went. It blows my mind! I recall a press release stating the new design was “honoring the rugged look” of the old version — um WHAT?! The new one makes me think of a puffed out Range Rover — no wow factor whatsoever, rather it looks like everything else out there. And I wondered if they thought anyone who owned the epic version would look at the new one and think “cool redesign”. IMO nothing about the new one referenced anything about the old one, let alone “honoring” it. End rant.

I totally agree. Having had LR Defenders since before I was old enough to drive, I was so disappointed in the form factor of the new one. I was invited to the launch party for the new Defender at a huge dealership (having had many Defenders serviced by them). The manager asked me what I thought of it. I explained that it is a really nice "car", but no longer relevant for my use requirements. If I wanted a vehicle like it - I would just buy a Range Rover. He was totally non-plussed. Hence my fascination with the Ineos project.

Tom109 · Oct 12, 2024

The ND really should have been the new Discovery.

Tazzieman · Oct 13, 2024

Zimm said:
I have a macho reputation to uphold, and it gets tougher the older I look. At this rate I’ll be driving a Z06 before the decade is out.

Replace English Folk Music with New Defender?

Max · Oct 13, 2024

The Land Rover club that I am a member of was asked if we would like to take our old Defenders for a showing at the launch of the new Defenders, which we did. The general feeling from the members was that the vehicle had a lot going for it, almost too much...asked what I thought of it...a bit flashy but the wrong name

lightning · Oct 13, 2024

ANNML said:
I’ve wondered about stats like this ever since LR introduced the new Defender. Don’t mean mean to offend anyone who owns the new version but to this day, I can’t fathom the direction they went. It blows my mind! I recall a press release stating the new design was “honoring the rugged look” of the old version — um WHAT?! The new one makes me think of a puffed out Range Rover — no wow factor whatsoever, rather it looks like everything else out there. And I wondered if they thought anyone who owned the epic version would look at the new one and think “cool redesign”. IMO nothing about the new one referenced anything about the old one, let alone “honoring” it. End rant.

But look how many they've sold (and are still selling) There's still a waiting list of 6-9 months for the Commercial version, 4 years after it was introduced.

ln the end, that's what the car manufacturers care about. l would much rather they had produced a new "old" Defender, like the Grenadier.

But if they'd done that, l doubt they would have sold anything like as many, plus we almost certainly wouldn't have had the Grenadier. At least now there's a choice.

Don't write off the new Defender either, particularly in the base specification without the 22" wheels or other bling it's a very capable vehicle.

But if your primary reason for buying a vehicle is Overlanding or similar then the Grenadier is your vehicle.

Tinerfeño · Oct 13, 2024

Tom109 said:
The ND really should have been the new Discovery.

It is Discovery 5 with a different dress. Could be called Discovery 5X or something.

Tinerfeño · Oct 13, 2024

ANNML said:
I recall a press release stating the new design was “honoring the rugged look” of the old version

I remember the same from presentation in Frankfurt car show. And 20 minutes later it was mentioned that the ND contains 82 computers. So much for "ruggedness"

vtgrenadier · Oct 13, 2024

Tinerfeño said:
It is Discovery 5 with a different dress. Could be called Discovery 5X or something.

Not true.

I'm on my second after 3 flawless years in a 110. This time around, I went with a 90 with the 4 cyl and full off road packs, plus factory-applied PPF. It's light years ahead of my last LR4 and more versatile than most vehicles I've owned. I've taken my "New" Defenders in places my Tdi 110s and 90s would never go... and find the interior to be the most comfortable and usable, with an utter lack of carpets and leather. After 35 years of LR ownership (and at least 25 of various models and configurations), I feel confident in saying so with first-hand experience.

My Grenadier is a different vehicle altogether - at least for my purposes.

Zimm · Oct 13, 2024

vtgrenadier said:
Not true.

I'm on my second after 3 flawless years in a 110. This time around, I went with a 90 with the 4 cyl and full off road packs, plus factory-applied PPF. It's light years ahead of my last LR4 and more versatile than most vehicles I've owned. I've taken my "New" Defenders in places my Tdi 110s and 90s would never go... and find the interior to be the most comfortable and usable, with an utter lack of carpets and leather. After 35 years of LR ownership (and at least 25 of various models and configurations), I feel confident in saying so with first-hand experience.

My Grenadier is a different vehicle altogether - at least for my purposes.

My plan b was a ‘23 90 trophy model that hadn’t sold. If the truck had actual manual settings for the diffs that actually locked that truck would be awesome. The price sheet from Sarek to make it what the Gren is with its lockers doubles the end price of the defender. I guess I’m accustomed to spending 3000/axel for arbs and being done with it.

vtgrenadier · Oct 13, 2024

Fair enough. What I like about the off-road pack and advanced off-road pack, is that I don't have to plan ahead or be distracted... it automatically locks and unlocks both the center and rear (visible on the screen) constantly. There's no sticking diff/backing-up like I've experienced with ARB and it's not a brake-actuated system that makes a lot of noise.

Zimm · Oct 13, 2024

vtgrenadier said:
Fair enough. What I like about the off-road pack and advanced off-road pack, is that I don't have to plan ahead or be distracted... it automatically locks and unlocks both the center and rear (visible on the screen) constantly. There's no sticking diff/backing-up like I've experienced with ARB and it's not a brake-actuated system that makes a lot of noise.

That’s more of a locker design issue with the grenadier. I don’t understand what they did that takes the system so long. It could be we see some sort of replacement solenoid with more guts in the future. My arb and Gwagon lockers come in and out when Needed. Activation still is not as fast as the new defender, but it’s GOOD to be able to plan ahead and act. The new defender “locking” system, as demonstrated on the YouTube, doesn’t actually hard lock like a geared locker, and, it has the disadvantage of being 100% reactive to the conditions. It reacts to existing slipping to limit it, whereas I like to plan ahead and lock up to prevent slipping in the first place. If off-roading and not paying attention or not knowing what to do is what’s going on, it does fill the attention gap pretty well.

lightning · Oct 13, 2024

Tinerfeño said:
It is Discovery 5 with a different dress. Could be called Discovery 5X or something.

No, it is nothing like a Discovery 5. l own a 2022 Defender 90 and my friend has a Disco 5.
l've also got a neighbour with a Velar, and one with an Evoque. The Defender is nothing like those either. And it was nothing like my friends Discovery Sport (which was stolen)

Drive a Discovery 5 and a new Defender, then tell me the Defender is a Discovery 5 with a different dress.

vtgrenadier · Oct 13, 2024

Zimm said:
That’s more of a locker design issue with the grenadier. I don’t understand what they did that takes the system so long. It could be we see some sort of replacement solenoid with more guts in the future. My arb and Gwagon lockers come in and out when Needed. Activation still is not as fast as the new defender, but it’s GOOD to be able to plan ahead and act. The new defender “locking” system, as demonstrated on the YouTube, doesn’t actually hard lock like a geared locker, and, it has the disadvantage of being 100% reactive to the conditions. It reacts to existing slipping to limit it, whereas I like to plan ahead and lock up to prevent slipping in the first place. If off-roading and not paying attention or not knowing what to do is what’s going on, it does fill the attention gap pretty well.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'if off-roading and not paying attention or not knowing what is going on, it does fill the attention gap pretty well..."
My training and experience as a professional off-road driving instructor was back in the 1990s... while the current tech is obviously far beyond air compressors and transfer case linkage, I find no appreciable disadvantage to the immediacy of the center and rear set-up in the current 90.

Another consideration is location, I suppose... in the Northeast, which is the only place I've wheeled my '22 110 and '24 90, it works quite well, whereas I look forward to the confidence that the triple lockers in the Grenadier will give me when I head out to Moab.

ANNML · Oct 13, 2024

Zimm said:
Actually I think it’s a nice looking car with great materials, fit and finish, and very ergonomic. I just wouldnt wanna drive something house frau in the neighborhood has. I have a macho reputation to uphold, and it gets tougher the older I look. At this rate I’ll be driving a Z06 before the decade is out.

Right — it just felt like there was nothing singular about it. Lol I bet your machismo will prevail for many, many years!

lightning said:
But look how many they've sold (and are still selling) There's still a waiting list of 6-9 months for the Commercial version, 4 years after it was introduced.

It really does surprise me. Makes me wonder about the buyer profile — new to Rovers entirely vs converting from other Rovers. It just felt like a very odd update on such a beloved stand-alone vehicle. And they just tossed all of its boxiness right out the window. I think if they would’ve at least referenced some of the visual traits of the original, it could’ve felt like more of a modern take/update rather than an entirely different vehicle that just used an old name.

Another example it made me think of is the G wagon. It’s a vehicle that so many people love (not necessarily here though) — and visually there is nothing else like it, the visual aspect is a huge part of what makes it IT. And if they redesigned it and made it all rounded and puffed out — the thing that made it IT would disappear and I wouldn’t be able to pick it out from anything else.

It might be a me thing — it bugs me that everything looks the same. I don’t know why but I’ve always loved boxy cars — the old broncos, intl scouts, old land cruisers, even the old Volvos in terms of sedans.

lightning · Oct 13, 2024

l am definitely with you on that one. At least the Grenadier embraces the boxy 4x4 look.

l may yet buy one. The problem for me is, there's no dealer anywhere near here so if l did buy one and had to take it in for any work to be done, it would basically be a day off work to do it.

Tinerfeño · Oct 13, 2024

lightning said:
No, it is nothing like a Discovery 5.

Front suspension components. Can you see any difference?

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