Might Ineos partner with BMW to increase dealerships/service centers?

PickledHerring · Oct 8, 2024

As someone who's seriously considering the Grenadier but who lives 5 hours drive from the nearest dealer, I'm curious how future access to at least service stations might look.

Total speculation on my part, but given how much of the power train is made by BMW, wouldn't it make sense to partner and use the many more numerous BMW dealerships as a service/sales network?

I'm thinking specifically of the issues of 12k mile services and tire rotations, which currently have to be done by an Ineos dealership, and would mean a multi-day trip each time for me.

I love almost everything about the car, but the distance to go for even basic maintenance gives me pause.

landmannnn · Oct 8, 2024

PickledHerring said:
As someone who's seriously considering the Grenadier but who lives 5 hours drive from the nearest dealer, I'm curious how future access to at least service stations might look.

Total speculation on my part, but given how much of the power train is made by BMW, wouldn't it make sense to partner and use the many more numerous BMW dealerships as a service/sales network?

I'm thinking specifically of the issues of 12k mile services and tire rotations, which currently have to be done by an Ineos dealership, and would mean a multi-day trip each time for me.

I love almost everything about the car, but the distance to go for even basic maintenance gives me pause.

I think you might have misunderstood a couple of things...

Servicing and tyre rotation can be done by anybody. (Although only an Ineos place can do the screen warning update currently)

A BMW dealer would be capable of servicing.

Only the engine is made by BMW, nothing else.

An official tie up is highly unlikely in my opinion.

anand · Oct 8, 2024

As stated above, the engine hardware alone is BMW based; the DME calibration is specific to Ineos, as is everythign else along the path. Other than the fact that the transmission is used by BMW (it is also used by VW, Stellantis, etc.) there are no other drivetrain similarities with BMW.

BMW scan tools cannot read/access Ineos modules beyond what any other generic tool can, and BMW technicians certainly don't know what they're looking at (other than, again, engine hardware).

PickledHerring · Oct 8, 2024

Thanks for the clarifications. I appreciate it.

IslandFalconer · Oct 8, 2024

I beg to differ, anyone who takes a few minutes to start removing plastic will find many many modules all branded by BMW, the DME is also BMW and was tuned by BMW, Ineos doesn’t get the privilege of programming the DME, TCM, BCM. Ineos introduced a security gateway and piggy backed their hardware. You can plug this thing in to ISTA (BMW Software) and see basically the entire vehicle. Ineos went and put the service interval and ADAS and some other internal components on its proprietary ECU that’s piggy backed on top of a BMW X5 base system.

So yes BMW could easily do all the required service work if Ineos would simply release the security gateway and their proprietary piggy back.

Source:I was a BMW Tech, I have the equipment at home. This is basically a BMW that Ineos went and screws with.
They should have done what Toyota did, re jigged the GUI and left what BMW has debugged alone. Now we have two systems that don’t play all that well together and some junior Software designer at Ineos who tried to re invent something that 100’s of millions of dollars and debugging have already been done too. It’s a complete disaster.

Bruce B · Oct 8, 2024

IslandFalconer said:
I beg to differ, anyone who takes a few minutes to start removing plastic will find many many modules all branded by BMW, the DME is also BMW and was tuned by BMW, Ineos doesn’t get the privilege of programming the DME, TCM, BCM. Ineos introduced a security gateway and piggy backed their hardware. You can plug this thing in to ISTA (BMW Software) and see basically the entire vehicle. Ineos went and put the service interval and ADAS and some other internal components on its proprietary ECU that’s piggy backed on top of a BMW X5 base system.

So yes BMW could easily do all the required service work if Ineos would simply release the security gateway and their proprietary piggy back.

Source:I was a BMW Tech, I have the equipment at home. This is basically a BMW that Ineos went and screws with.
They should have done what Toyota did, re jigged the GUI and left what BMW has debugged alone. Now we have two systems that don’t play all that well together and some junior Software designer at Ineos who tried to re invent something that 100’s of millions of dollars and debugging have already been done too. It’s a complete disaster.

“Source…” think that everyone understands exactly what you are.
After my own lifetime in the world of European automotive maintenance and repair, after paying many hundreds of thousands of dollars for software licenses, after making a successful living in the business of euro diagnostics…it is easy to see through you. Of course I have more faith in people than you do and I am sure that you are fooling a few people regularly but… most understand exactly what you are doing.
At least any who actually read your constant whining…
I still hope that you end up with the vehicle you hoped for as everyone who purchases a vehicle ultimately wishes.

Toot · Oct 8, 2024

Bruce B said:
“Source…” think that everyone understands exactly what you are.
After my own lifetime in the world of European automotive maintenance and repair, after paying many hundreds of thousands of dollars for software licenses, after making a successful living in the business of euro diagnostics…it is easy to see through you. Of course I have more faith in people than you do and I am sure that you are fooling a few people regularly but… most understand exactly what you are doing.
At least any who actually read your constant whining…
I still hope that you end up with the vehicle you hoped for as everyone who purchases a vehicle ultimately wishes.

I sense a previous altercation. A bit rude and spicy no?

MileHigh · Oct 8, 2024

Where is the popcorn emoji,

, oh there it is.

I’ve always thought the long play/back up plan was for this to become the BMW “G wagon“ if things went sideways. Kind of the interesting thing is that the engine and transmission are the same as what’s in the supra, this is far closer to the old Land Cruisers we had in the US before they took them down market.

The reality is that we would probably end up with some kind of DeLorean type ending, but without the cocaine and craziness.

Bruce B · Oct 8, 2024

Toot said:
A bit rude and spicy no?

Spicy but real if you ask me…
If you have read his previous posts, you’d get it. I wish him well but as a person who has spent a lifetime in this business, I know exactly what I am seeing.

DoubleDoom · Oct 8, 2024

The Head unit is BMW (not the software) and according to an audio specialist firm in our area that has done upgrades on audio for a Grenadier, the wiring looms are BMW.

Bruce B · Oct 9, 2024

DoubleDoom said:
The Head unit is BMW (not the software) and according to an audio specialist firm in our area that has done upgrades on audio for a Grenadier, the wiring looms are BMW.

My guess is that the reality is that the parts (head unit…) are better described as the same as used by BMW. Most manufacturers purchase systems from vendors like Bosch and others. If you look deep enough, you will find similarities amongst many auto manufacturers products.

IslandFalconer · Oct 9, 2024

Toot said:
I sense a previous altercation. A bit rude and spicy no?

Not sure what that’s about. Just because I have issues with the truck doesn’t mean I have no clue. But to each their own. If Bruce has all the euro licenses he would know exactly what I know.

IslandFalconer · Oct 9, 2024

Bruce B said:
“Source…” think that everyone understands exactly what you are.
After my own lifetime in the world of European automotive maintenance and repair, after paying many hundreds of thousands of dollars for software licenses, after making a successful living in the business of euro diagnostics…it is easy to see through you. Of course I have more faith in people than you do and I am sure that you are fooling a few people regularly but… most understand exactly what you are doing.
At least any who actually read your constant whining…
I still hope that you end up with the vehicle you hoped for as everyone who purchases a vehicle ultimately wishes.

Open ISTA, type in an X5 vin, any vin you have for one. And have a look Bruce. You can even reset the Brake Service, full access to TCM, BCM, DME, most of the Can Network. Go have a look. I’ll wait

landmannnn · Oct 9, 2024

IslandFalconer said:
It’s a complete disaster

Slight exaggeration methinks.

Jeremy996 · Oct 9, 2024

landmannnn said:
Slight exaggeration methinks.

It sound a bit like a PC user forced to use a Mac or a Mac user forced to use a PC - similar but not the same, and different priorities when it comes to ease of use and secondary functions.
Not being able to reset the service data is an irritation, I'd struggle to call it a disaster.

Back in the innocent days before I actually had my Grenadier but after I'd placed my order, I had a fantasy that the OBD functions and the manual would be embedded within the touch screen and selectable from a sub-menu when the vehicle was switched to the accessory position with the engine off. I'd be willing to pay, (once, I loathe software as a service), quite handsomely for that. (I appreciate that I'd be screwed if it was the touch screen that had failed! Not a nice thought when you remember that early Tesla S models are getting bricked when their display fails).

Zimm · Oct 9, 2024

Bruce B said:
“Source…” think that everyone understands exactly what you are.
After my own lifetime in the world of European automotive maintenance and repair, after paying many hundreds of thousands of dollars for software licenses, after making a successful living in the business of euro diagnostics…it is easy to see through you. Of course I have more faith in people than you do and I am sure that you are fooling a few people regularly but… most understand exactly what you are doing.
At least any who actually read your constant whining…
I still hope that you end up with the vehicle you hoped for as everyone who purchases a vehicle ultimately wishes.

But, you didn’t point out where he’s wrong. It would more helpful to dissect the message than the messenger. Can you do that for us?

Dual Grenny Guy · Oct 10, 2024

Zimm said:
But, you didn’t point out where he’s wrong. It would more helpful to dissect the message than the messenger. Can you do that for us?

It’s not just about the right and wrong of things. It’s the constant negativity towards Grenadier. Almost every single thread he is in he bashes or is negative on Ineos. Sure there are issues, and I could post another super LONG response here, but would just be easier if you read the thread

“Where's the confidence level in the company?”

Sorry not tech savvy enough to leave a link.

I don’t mind someone pointing out issues etc, but every thread/almost every post being negative it can get to some who like/love/appreciate this vehicle. Like I said in other threads/posts, if you are soooooo upset/disappointed in a product, why keep it? Sell it, trade it, find a way to get rid of it and move on. This is of course my own opinion, but the same right that gives the negative Nannie’s the right to post here gives me the same right to defend/champion this AWESOME vehicle!! What I just learned in this thread that shocks me, as the negative Nannie stated be use to be a BMW tech so how the heck doesn’t he know parts can take a long time to come in and it’s not just a Grenadier issue (see other post for more details as this already turned into a longer than I wanted). Btw, i did drive one of my Grenadiers to my local BMW dealerships (very large and well known in my state) and they advised they will not touch it, no services not even tire rotation and didn’t matter to them I showed them the engine. So unless Ineos actually makes some kind of contract deals with BMW for servicing it seems like my local BMW dealership is not going to be any help. I am 4 hours away (one way) from closest Ineos dealership, but I knew this going into ownership. However, the Grenadier still won me over TWICE!! I did find a local shop willing to TRY to do service work and Anything needed when the time arises, so we shall see how that plays out. I know this forum or anything in life is not going to always be 100% positive, but after so much negativity from one source I just have to speak up. I have TWO of these vehicles and ZERO issues on either other than the normal minor things we all deal with until software update comes in to fix them (I.e. speed limit warning). GRENADIER LIFER right here!!! Hope I am not eating these words come 2025!!!

Dual Grenny Guy · Oct 10, 2024

landmannnn said:
Slight exaggeration methinks.

Bluesurf · Oct 10, 2024

Take it a step further, it could be in BMW's interest to buy a steak in Ineos Automotive. Since BMW provides the engine, computers, ignition system and infotainment system it would make a good investment. BMW can claim its part in a Ineos 4X4, and that will certainly help with sales and more prestige. BMW would be directly involved with Ineos in making the Grenadier compete with their rival the Mercedes G550. I know BMW uses Recaro and they are not shutting down. A Partnership will add money from a second pocket. Deep pockets are best.

IslandFalconer · Oct 10, 2024

Dual Grenny Guy said:
It’s not just about the right and wrong of things. It’s the constant negativity towards Grenadier. Almost every single thread he is in he bashes or is negative on Ineos. Sure there are issues, and I could post another super LONG response here, but would just be easier if you read the thread

“Where's the confidence level in the company?”

Sorry not tech savvy enough to leave a link. I don’t mind someone pointing out issues etc, but every thread/almost every post being negative it can get to some who like/love/appreciate this vehicle. Like I said in other threads/posts, if you are soooooo upset/disappointed in a product, why keep it? Sell it, trade it, find a way to get rid of it and move on. This is of course my own opinion, but the same right that gives the negative Nannie’s the right to post here gives me the same right to defend/champion this AWESOME vehicle!! What I just learned in this thread that shocks me, as the negative Nannie stated be use to be a BMW tech so how the heck doesn’t he know parts can take a long time to come in and it’s not just a Grenadier issue (see other post for more details as this already turned into a longer than I wanted). Btw, i did drive one of my Grenadiers to my local BMW dealerships (very large and well known in my state) and they advised they will not touch it, no services not even tire rotation and didn’t matter to them I showed them the engine. So unless Ineos actually makes some kind of contract deals with BMW for servicing it seems like my local BMW dealership is not going to be any help. I am 4 hours away (one way) from closest Ineos dealership, but I knew this going into ownership. However, the Grenadier still won me over TWICE!! I did find a local shop willing to TRY to do service work and Anything needed when the time arises, so we shall see how that plays out. I know this forum or anything in life is not going to always be 100% positive, but after so much negativity from one source I just have to speak up. I have TWO of these vehicles and ZERO issues on either other than the normal minor things we all deal with until software update comes in to fix them (I.e. speed limit warning). GRENADIER LIFER right here!!! Hope I am not eating these words come 2025!!!

I love how everyone resorts to roll over quit, sell it, loose your money give up go away. So here’s the deal with all of the folks here who are emotionally attached to a truck. I don’t get emotional. I don’t roll over, loose my shirt, and sell my problem child down the road to some poor sucker. Let me clear this up for everyone here. I like the truck, I don’t like its problems. If you don’t like my views on the vehicle. Don’t read what I have to say. It’s that simple. I don’t get emotional about a truck. I call it the way it is. If it hurts your feelings to read about the problems with a truck, ask yourself why. It’s a truck it has no feelings, it doesn’t care. I’m not going to loose 30k to make those of you on here who get upset that I call out the problems I have. It’s a public forum. And people have a right to know the problems the vehicle has. How you feel about that is really kind of silly. Here it is, I’m dealing with it. I have a loaner, the dealer has my truck. Ineos and the dealer are well aware of the issues. And it’s well documented. So while many of you are happy to feel like it’s a good truck. I’ll work to actually get its problems solved. And maybe it will benefit all of the folks on here who get emotional over a truck. And get upset when someone calls a spade a spade. Next time you’re in traffic on an incline and you almost roll in to a vehicle behind you because the vehicle manufacturer forgot to install a module. You can re think your emotions.

So if you don’t like me, frankly that’s pretty pointless. You don’t know me. You’ve decided I’m “emotional” because I call it the way it is. I’m sorry if my to the point, no fluff straight up forward was causes you emotional distress. I don’t play the keep everyone happy game. I don’t care to be told to eat my Cheerios or to suck it up and accept poor workmanship and poor customer service. It’s completely unnecessary in this day and age.

So there it is, you don’t like what I have to say. That’s on you.

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Might Ineos partner with BMW to increase dealerships/service centers?

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