Steering stabilizer bar

FlyersFan76 · Aug 14, 2024

parb said:
In what way is the stock better for a daily drive? I'm having the opposite experience but i want to learn from you, maybe i'm not driving on varied enough roadtypes to get the full picture?

I found that at 75mph going over potholes, speed bumps (Yes on the highway) the steering stabilizer was soft that I would get wobble. Not crazy death wobble but enough that I didn't want to white knuckle all the time. I know I am not going to get Land Rover experience of feeling like driving on a cushion air but the shimmy was not worth it. While I do not get full return to center I get it enough.

The loaner Grenadier that I had yesterday had less than 700 miles and the driving was very easy.

Zenbox · Aug 14, 2024

I recently installed the Fox stabilizer from Owl. I like it, but in reading the comments in here, should I just go back to the stock one? I do not have many miles on the Fox stabilizer, but have not experienced any wobble whatsoever. Has anyone else with the Fox stabilizer had any problems? Thank you for any insights on this issue!

jcurtin · Aug 14, 2024

Zenbox said:
I recently installed the Fox stabilizer from Owl. I like it, but in reading the comments in here, should I just go back to the stock one? I do not have many miles on the Fox stabilizer, but have not experienced any wobble whatsoever. Has anyone else with the Fox stabilizer had any problems? Thank you for any insights on this issue!

One thing to add for clarity, when the fox was added to my unit, everything initially seemed fine. I'm guessing maybe the first 200 miles was without an issue. Then, randomly it seemed, the bad wobble occurred. After that incident, dealer was not apply to replicate the wobble, despite trying to. Later... maybe another 100 miles in... same wobble appear again. Vehicle went back to dealer a second time... and this time, they were able to replicate it.

Krabby · Aug 14, 2024

But each issue occurred WITH the Fox stabilizer, correct?

jcurtin · Aug 14, 2024

Krabby said:
But each issue occurred WITH the Fox stabilizer, correct?

Yes - my issues w/ wobble were with the Fox installed

Bluesurf · Aug 14, 2024

I am wondering if there is any difference between these two FOX Stabilizers?

https://agileoffroad.com/product/ineos-grenadier-fox-steering-stabilizer-by-agile-offroad/?token=188e2cc7-d09c-4e73-9c01-028f510aa1f5&utm_source=yotpo&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=map

Ineos Grenadier/Quartermaster Fox Steering Stabilizer

THESE ARE IN STOCK. BUY TODAY, SHIPS FAST. The Performance Series Fox steering stabilizer for Ineos Grenadier helps take the load off your steering components and keep your tires tracking straight and true. Oversized off-road tires tend to seek traction in any direction and limit the steering...

owloutdoor.com

MattG · Aug 14, 2024

Zenbox said:
I recently installed the Fox stabilizer from Owl. I like it, but in reading the comments in here, should I just go back to the stock one? I do not have many miles on the Fox stabilizer, but have not experienced any wobble whatsoever. Has anyone else with the Fox stabilizer had any problems? Thank you for any insights on this issue!

I can only go by my personal experience. I installed the non-adjustable Fox steering stabiliser (from Agile Off-road) on my Grenadier about a month ago. Have towed our 1.5 Tonne camper trailer on the highway (110km/h) and driven around 500km with it so far. I have had no issues whatsoever. It has improved the steering feel, reduced the amount of input required to maintain driving in a straight line on the highway and it now easily returns to centre. I’m happy with it, so far.

Quartermaster · Aug 14, 2024

OME installed since over 3.000 km now. Narrow roads, german Autobahn at 120 km/h, offroad. Never had a problem. Better return to center, easier driving straight (a safety win especially on narrow roads with oncoming traffic).
Many people say, if you get death wobble, the Problem is somewhere else . A stiff dampener just masks the real problem - for a while.

nuclearbeef · Aug 16, 2024

BD1 · Aug 16, 2024

Today my dealer told me that had a customer who had death wobble after they (the customer) installed a fox stabilizer. It was actually in the shop where they were putting back on the factory stabilizer.

e_k_powell · Aug 16, 2024

MattG said:
I can only go by my personal experience. I installed the non-adjustable Fox steering stabiliser (from Agile Off-road) on my Grenadier about a month ago. Have towed our 1.5 Tonne camper trailer on the highway (110km/h) and driven around 500km with it so far. I have had no issues whatsoever. It has improved the steering feel, reduced the amount of input required to maintain driving in a straight line on the highway and it now easily returns to centre. I’m happy with it, so far.

Same as you. I have the non-adjustable Fox stabilizer from Agile. Works like a charm for me on the road. Steering not as floaty and return to center is a little better. I am going to have alignment adjusted to get as close to 2.0 on the caster as I can get and camber and toe close to zero or just slightly negative and I think it will be even better. I have towed my combined 6400 lb boat and trailer with no issue. If it happens I'll go back to stock. I could see there being issues with the aftermarket stabilizer in combo with lift springs, OEM shocks and bigger tires. You start messing with the geometry of the drag link and track bar in relation to the tie-rod. They need to all be parallel to each other or at least close to it. I don't plan on lifting mine. I have put on 285/70/17 KO3s and that is it. I'd like to level the front end up 3/4" or so but that would be it. I just don't like the concept of putting on the Eibach lift springs with the OEM shocks. Lose too much droop in the front end. I'd rather have a more downtravel than uptravel.

MattG · Aug 16, 2024

e_k_powell said:
Same as you. I have the non-adjustable Fox stabilizer from Agile. Works like a charm for me on the road. Steering not as floaty and return to center is a little better. I am going to have alignment adjusted to get as close to 2.0 on the caster as I can get and camber and toe close to zero or just slightly negative and I think it will be even better. I have towed my combined 6400 lb boat and trailer with no issue. If it happens I'll go back to stock. I could see there being issues with the aftermarket stabilizer in combo with lift springs, OEM shocks and bigger tires. You start messing with the geometry of the drag link and track bar in relation to the tie-rod. They need to all be parallel to each other or at least close to it. I don't plan on lifting mine. I have put on 285/70/17 KO3s and that is it. I'd like to level the front end up 3/4" or so but that would be it. I just don't like the concept of putting on the Eibach lift springs with the OEM shocks. Lose too much droop in the front end. I'd rather have a more downtravel than uptravel.

Same here. I’ll keep the Fox unit on ours and only change back to stock if we have a problem.
Someone made the point earlier in this thread regarding the fact that despite aiming for absolute consistency in manufacturing and adherence to tight tolerances, every car will be slightly different from the next. They are assembled and set up by humans after all. There are so many permutations with regards to tyres, suspension, steering geometry, etc. that to put the blame on a single component as a cause of the “death wobble” might be an over-simplification. Many drivers (myself included) have not experienced this phenomenon, despite upgrading the steering stabiliser to the non-adjustable Fox unit, which just illustrates the subtle (and not so subtle) variability in manufacturing and setup. We’re not planning to lift ours either (mostly because of car park height limitations around town!). Anyhow, just my 2 cents anyway!

rur42 · Aug 16, 2024

Another happy Fox unit here, about 1100 miles on it and up to 80 mph on the freeway, with pot holes. No wobble so far. Trialmaster with factory tires, and wheels, and towing package and winch... which I believe introduce different springs into the equation. Determining the root cause may prove to be difficult, but if the factory damper fixes it... Not suggesting this is really what happened, but maybe INEOS couldn't solve the death wobble either and simply cranked up the spec on the damper until it went away.

jcurtin · Aug 17, 2024

BD1 said:
Today my dealer told me that had a customer who had death wobble after they (the customer) installed a fox stabilizer. It was actually in the shop where they were putting back on the factory stabilizer.

That was my vehicle... just got it back today. Ringing bell sound from stock unit on bumps made me switch from stock initially... paid to put fox on... wobble issue came up... had to pay again to put a new stock damper back on. Probably close to $1000 all in and painful experience. Each to their own... I'm just glad to hopefully have wobble issue in the past.

Tazzieman · Aug 17, 2024

jcurtin said:
glad to hopefully have wobble issue in the past.

You've put your wobbles behind you

Future wobbles , watch out for this man!

TerryS · Aug 17, 2024

I am just impressed that the Fox engineers can take an off the shelf stabilizer and have it out perform with no risk vs the factory stabilizer.....even after the Magna Steyr engineers tested the OEM version for over a million miles driven. The same engineers that also designed the g-wagon.

parb · Aug 17, 2024

TerryS said:
I am just impressed that the Fox engineers can take an off the shelf stabilizer and have it out perform with no risk vs the factory stabilizer.....even after the Magna Steyr engineers tested the OEM version for over a million miles driven. The same engineers that also designed the g-wagon.

Its the same engineers who rolled out the new defender. The first two model years of the new platform where rough (and I'm being kind). I think they need years with a product to refine it.

We're not sure where that death wobble comes from since it's isolated to a limited number of cars. if it's highly reproducible across all cars with the fox damper then I'd point a finger at the fox shock, but so far it's been limited which makes it much more complex. We have had some very sophisticated off-road shops roll out this damper and doing extensive driving on their own as well.

Given that this is all fox do I have some faith in that as well, a specialized vendor tend to have lots of skill in their domain. I'm far more skeptical to the various diy things I've seen.

I would be worried about an undiagnosed underlying problem if I was the owner of the car with the wobble.

I would find one of those race shops and have them do a serious laser guided 4 wheel alignment, the way they do for high speed race cars. I have one of those shops where I live and I they are also specialized in designing steering components for high speed race cars as well as for old cars who wants modern steering ((think the upper end of restomods). A highly specialized shop but I would be interested in their analysis.

I have a 180mph race car and it performed so much better after they did their magic, and they replaced nothing just adjusted it really well. At 150mph and above steering becomes super important and a death wobble makes you flip the car).

I would probably also get a laser equipped shop verify the chassis for straightness (although I think that is a stretch). Just to be sure there is nothing fundamental in the car.. But that's my few cents.

anand · Aug 18, 2024

TerryS said:
I am just impressed that the Fox engineers can take an off the shelf stabilizer and have it out perform with no risk vs the factory stabilizer.....even after the Magna Steyr engineers tested the OEM version for over a million miles driven. The same engineers that also designed the g-wagon.

Fox engineers didn't design anything for the Grenadier. And it is also unfair to say there are no risks, because there have been people with the Fox stabilizer experience death wobble (if not posted on here, definitely on the FB groups).

The Fox stabilizers (both versions by Owl as well as the one Agile sells) are parts either designed for a generic application or another vehicle that have been adapted to work on the Grenadier.

Fox did not design the Grenadier kit, thus why it isn't available to purchase from Fox. There are kits put together by other companies using the Fox damper.

Additionally, "out perform" is an interesting phrase to use. The original vehicle is designed to with off-road driving and stability as a forefront; for which the factory damper is phenomenal. Any softer damper (like the Fox units, OME units, etc) will transmit more off road bump through the steering and into the driver's hands through the wheel, that's just basic physics and damper technology.

TerryS · Aug 18, 2024

anand said:
Fox engineers didn't design anything for the Grenadier. And it is also unfair to say there are no risks, because there have been people with the Fox stabilizer experience death wobble (if not posted on here, definitely on the FB groups).

The Fox stabilizers (both versions by Owl as well as the one Agile sells) are parts either designed for a generic application or another vehicle that have been adapted to work on the Grenadier.

Fox did not design the Grenadier kit, thus why it isn't available to purchase from Fox. There are kits put together by other companies using the Fox damper.

Additionally, "out perform" is an interesting phrase to use. The original vehicle is designed to with off-road driving and stability as a forefront; for which the factory damper is phenomenal. Any softer damper (like the Fox units, OME units, etc) will transmit more off road bump through the steering and into the driver's hands through the wheel, that's just basic physics and damper technology.

Sorry @anand I was being sarcastic and a bit of a smart ass.

I am highly skeptical of the benefits: like better return to center, etc. as it doesn't change the geometry. It might 'feel' a bit better to some because the aftermarket stabilizers are not as stiff. It just seems like a lot of unnecessary risk to make this change or to run without a stabilizer at all. This comes from years of running jeeps and seeing similar issues with poorly modified jeeps.

You are top of the list of people on this forum I respect and read your posts carefully.

anand · Aug 18, 2024

TerryS said:
Sorry @anand I was being sarcastic and a bit of a smart ass.

I am highly skeptical of the benefits: like better return to center, etc. as it doesn't change the geometry. It might 'feel' a bit better to some because the aftermarket stabilizers are not as stiff. It just seems like a lot of unnecessary risk to make this change or to run without a stabilizer at all. This comes from years of running jeeps and seeing similar issues with poorly modified jeeps.

You are top of the list of people on this forum I respect and read your posts carefully.

Big ooof by me, sorry I missed the sarcasm!! And thank you for the kind words, there are plenty of folks on here with a ton of good information and background, that's part of what make's this community so unique and amazing!

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