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Ineos signals worrying strategies

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I think that is one of it's main design criteria.
Polo horse floats.
It will tow 3500KG (7700 pounds) easily, particularly the diesel.
The ability to drive on the road in 4wd low range unlocked up to 80 kmh or 50 mph also makes it great for towing
I am of the belief that the tow weight (not tongue) shouldn’t exceed 75% capacity. I’m sure the grenny would do fine but I wouldn’t do it on a regular basis.

We have a ski boat at around 5k lbs and we won’t use the grenadier either as it feels stressed at 70mph and passing feels like you have to think about it a mile or two in advance. The f250, 16 to 17 mpg, no problem at freeway speeds, AC works when the temp is over 100 outside and tons of room.
 

K2grenadier

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I initially viewed arcane works as an expansion of their efforts to sell to a broader audience, but after reading what George Ratcliffe ( Sir Jim Ratcliff’s son by the way) in the Autocar article said is deeply disturbing. Telling us that the dealers saying the Grenadier is too cheap….or that Ineos cannot fulfill its original promise to make a utilitarian vehicle is quite concerning. Pivoting to a low volume high priced manufacturer to avoid EU regulation is a dangerous move in my opinion.

I’m not looking forward to seeing what happens with aftermarket parts and service….i wonder if we will ever get the “cad” system that was promised.

Hopefully other dealers and customers will speak up and encourage Ineos to stick with their original plan.
 

Lars

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I initially viewed arcane works as an expansion of their efforts to sell to a broader audience, but after reading what George Ratcliffe ( Sir Jim Ratcliff’s son by the way) in the Autocar article said is deeply disturbing. Telling us that the dealers saying the Grenadier is too cheap….or that Ineos cannot fulfill its original promise to make a utilitarian vehicle is quite concerning. Pivoting to a low volume high priced manufacturer to avoid EU regulation is a dangerous move in my opinion.

I’m not looking forward to seeing what happens with aftermarket parts and service….i wonder if we will ever get the “cad” system that was promised.

Hopefully other dealers and customers will speak up and encourage Ineos to stick with their original plan.
Didn't you read that as George R. thinks their future customers all want an "upscale-life style" vehicle? They already have our money; will they really listen to us?
So what happens to the brand if Sir Jim is no longer in the picture, say in 5 years, and BOD of Ineos decides a vanity car brand doesn't fit with a chemical company? Then they sell it to a Chinese carmaker who only wants to build the Grenadier EV?
 

DaveB

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I am of the belief that the tow weight (not tongue) shouldn’t exceed 75% capacity. I’m sure the grenny would do fine but I wouldn’t do it on a regular basis.

We have a ski boat at around 5k lbs and we won’t use the grenadier either as it feels stressed at 70mph and passing feels like you have to think about it a mile or two in advance. The f250, 16 to 17 mpg, no problem at freeway speeds, AC works when the temp is over 100 outside and tons of room.
Not sure how it works in America but in Australia 3500 kg braked and 750kg unbraked is what you can tow with the Grenadier 100% of the time as long as you don't exceed 7,000 kg Gross combined weight and the tow ball + rear axle weight.
You guys don't get the diesel, which is by far the better towing option.
However you would never tow at 70 MPH anyway unless on a motorway, possibly not even then.
My neighbour uses a RAM 2500 with GVM upgrade to tow his off road van.
We only have motorways around large cities and a few rural areas.
Mostly it is one lane in each direction dubious quality highways.
 

DaveB

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Didn't you read that as George R. thinks their future customers all want an "upscale-life style" vehicle? They already have our money; will they really listen to us?
So what happens to the brand if Sir Jim is no longer in the picture, say in 5 years, and BOD of Ineos decides a vanity car brand doesn't fit with a chemical company? Then they sell it to a Chinese carmaker who only wants to build the Grenadier EV?
I already have my Grenadier so I don't really care what happens as long as I can get parts and get it serviced.
 

SkiBum1

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Here is my worry. The current gren is priced in the market roughly where both the range rover and g class where priced about a decade before they decided that they needed to compete with Bentley.

This price point is reachable by the upper middle class. The current g class price point and the current era range rover have largely become the vehicle for the 1%, realistically even at entry level priced 50% above the gren. At volume sales they are almost 80-100% above the gren, making it less of an adventure car and more of a statement car. Which is exactly what those two cars have become.

With that marker segment comes a ecosystem of after markets parts that focus on things that appeals to the 1%. like bespoke Louis Vuitton interior, champagne chillers and necessities for that Instagram post. The super wealthy will not touch the gren, we are talking the silicon valley exec, the crypto crew and the monied influencers. The current ecosystem of functional after market suppliers die in that world where brand and image matters more than capability. just what is slowly happening in the g class universe.

We are fooling ourselves if we think that ineos can satisfy two market segments and that the bespoke won't spill into the core product and bastardize it. Or at least this is my worry based on having seen these types of strategies roll out into the market in the last decade or two.

We started this journey with a focus on a modern defender. We're landing in a Bentley competitor if these strategies play out. Incompatible strategies under the same brand. Hence my worry.

I really don't want to see ineos become like a Aston Martin with it's confused market segmentation and tethering on bankruptcy year after year as they dont have the money to really consistently spend to keep up with expectations in the luxury market and no real model segmentation that creates a cash cow life Porsche got with the cayenne that subsidies the rest of the product line.

My few cents
Well said!
 

parb

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Didn't you read that as George R. thinks their future customers all want an "upscale-life style" vehicle? They already have our money; will they really listen to us?
So what happens to the brand if Sir Jim is no longer in the picture, say in 5 years, and BOD of Ineos decides a vanity car brand doesn't fit with a chemical company? Then they sell it to a Chinese carmaker who only wants to build the Grenadier EV?
Enthusiast go to Toyota/Lexus landcruiser? Ford Bronco? Is there much else?

Ineos won't sell to the Chinese, they buy brands and not products/capabilities and the Grenadier isnt a big enough of a brand (yet). There is also questions if the Chinese money printer is running out of paper.

Id put bigger odds on a PE buyout than on the Chinese in the current market.
Maybe bmw wants to dance with the G class and that's a target?
 
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Lars

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I already have my Grenadier so I don't really care what happens as long as I can get parts and get it serviced.
That's the problem...in ten years will there be parts support? You being an optimist will undoubtedly say "of course" and certainly there will be parts for the BMW engine, but if your center display goes bad, you are out-of-luck and your vehicle is inoperable.
 
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Um... being able to tow 7000lbs means it CAN tow, that doesn't make it a tow vehicle. It looks really cute with something on the hitch, but, if you need to tow, get an f350.
 

parb

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That's the problem...in ten years will there be parts support? You being an optimist will undoubtedly say "of course" and certainly there will be parts for the BMW engine, but if your center display goes bad, you are out-of-luck and your vehicle is inoperable.
Lars is 100% correct. If Ineos deviates significantly from the current path and becomes wobbly then we're all screwed. Electronics is what will be the real issue in this era cars.
 
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Enthusiast go to Toyota/Lexus landcruiser? Ford Bronco? Is there much else?

Ineos won't sell to the Chinese, they buy brands and not products/capabilities and the Grenadier isnt a big enough of a brand (yet). There is also questions if the Chinese money printer is running out of paper.

Id put bigger odds on a PE buyout than on the Chinese in the current market.
Maybe bmw wants to dance with the G class and that's a target?
In another thread I speculated the same about BMW And I think the badge fits :)
 

DaveB

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That's the problem...in ten years will there be parts support? You being an optimist will undoubtedly say "of course" and certainly there will be parts for the BMW engine, but if your center display goes bad, you are out-of-luck and your vehicle is inoperable.
Keeping in mind that the only thing Ineos is the final assembly of the vehicle.
Some of these suppliers have changed but everything should be available for a fair while, or someone will come up with replacements.
Software/firmware is the main issue.

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bikesandguitars

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Worst case scenario, some enterprising person will figure out how to affordably source and acquire replacement parts. They will offer a catalog of exorbitantly priced kit for the Grenadier.
I’m not worried. I think the brand will be around for a while. But these are strange times, no doubt.
 

DaveB

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Worst case scenario, some enterprising person will figure out how to affordably source and acquire replacement parts. They will offer a catalog of exorbitantly priced kit for the Grenadier.
I’m not worried. I think the brand will be around for a while. But these are strange times, no doubt.
This is a channel I watch where he does up old BMW's.
He sources lots of parts from the original manufacturer rather than from BMW as they are much cheaper.
Some have been discontinued by BMW but are still available from the OEM.
At least Ineos hyas supplied OEM details so we know where the parts come from.

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CRH

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If they aim higher up the money tree then we can expect the already expensive parts and services to go in the same direction.
They want them to be seen outside all the private schools with all the offloading kit, spotlessly cleaned (by the butler), sitting on big rims and low profile tyres. All the other mummy's will then look with envy at their common RangeRover, pimped out Defender/GW or Bentley and go back to their estate and ring hubby demanding why they haven't got one of those unique and difficult to obtain Grenadier's and why he doesn't earn enough as little Tarquins daddy.
 

DaveB

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If they aim higher up the money tree then we can expect the already expensive parts and services to go in the same direction.
They want them to be seen outside all the private schools with all the offloading kit, spotlessly cleaned (by the butler), sitting on big rims and low profile tyres. All the other mummy's will then look with envy at their common RangeRover, pimped out Defender/GW or Bentley and go back to their estate and ring hubby demanding why they haven't got one of those unique and difficult to obtain Grenadier's and why he doesn't earn enough as little Tarquins daddy.
Then again I am watching what some people on here are doing with their Grenadiers and i think ...yuck.......or what a waste.
But it is their Grenadier, their money and their time so they can do whatever they want.
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DoubleDoom

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I wouldn’t use the IG to tow a horse trailer unless it was those mini horses (but my feet drag on the ground during the match:)
Our IG will be towing horse trailers, and during the test weekend, we had a demo IG; towing with it was effortless. We also pulled a 3.5T muck trailer and again, effortless. At the time, the muck field was sloppy clay covered in a foot of rainwater and wee, and it didn't have any issues getting in or out.

The new Defender is a slightly better tower (I tested one of those as well), but only because of the automatic lining up. It's also a smoother drive, but I prefer to have more of a feel of the surface when towing. If it's bumpy for me, then it will be bumpy for the horses, and I can adjust accordingly.
 

Jeremy996

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Um... being able to tow 7000lbs means it CAN tow, that doesn't make it a tow vehicle. It looks really cute with something on the hitch, but, if you need to tow, get an f350.
That is a very USA-centric opinion; an F350 will not fit down most of the roads around me!
In the UK and much of Europe, the Grenadier is a big vehicle; in the USA I guess it is more of a nursery toy.

Towing speeds are mandated at lower levels too,
"It is also important to stick to the required speed limits – they are different for cars towing a caravan/trailer:
  • 60mph - motorways and dual carriageways.
  • 50mph - single carriageways.
  • 30mph - built-up areas." West Yorkshire Police
The French suggest a maximum of 100kph on ordinary roads and 110kph on autoroutes.

If Ineos Automotive can get a lot of luxury Grenadiers on the road, they will max out the profit margin they can get on the few they can sell in the UK and Europe, but if they need volume through the factory, they'll need to sell a "tradesman" version.
 

bigleonski

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Don’t worry about a “luxury” model costing big bucks.
There’s a fieldmaster with trialmaster options added at my dealer for sale for almost $160k AUD. That’s as much as a top of the line with fruit “real” Landcruiser 300 series GR, and about $50k more than I paid for a similar spec.
That’s getting into luxury dollarydoos.
 
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