Ad Blue bypass

Cheshire cat · Feb 2, 2024

DenisM said:
Having read yet again in detail, the "BMW University' B57 engine training document posted on this forum, I am beginning to change my view on EGR and AdBlue (DEF) deletion! Coupled with this I have sought other explanations regarding the function of the Cat. converter (= SCR) and the particulate filter (DPF).
The B57 setup in the Grenadier has two devices which separate oil from the gases in the EGR system (precluding the need for catch cans). Further, the non-combustible gases in the EGR system are siphoned off and treated via the DEF /AdBlue system . I hadn't realised the 'subtleties' of this engine until I examined these in detail. The "Euro6" standard, despite my initial 'reluctant squirming" to accept, actually maintains power and torque as well as producing a much cleaner outcome which should enhance engine life. The adherence to regular oil changes using high quality low ash oils is critical also to reduce the gradual build up within the DPF of non combustible deposits....
It's given me good reason to leave well alone...
So endeth the lesson for today

Thanks Denis
Interesting reading and a sound persuasion as to why I should leave well alone also.
My reason for considering otherwise was, a friend who is a haulage contractor running Scania and Mercedes wagons says that AdBlue systems are a pain for him. Like many other contractors, the system has been bypassed to improve reliability bearing in mind many of his problems are actually down to the AdBlue system itself.

Matiassebastian · Feb 2, 2024

Cheshire cat said:
I am wondering, if the system is bypassed, apart from any legal infringements, would a dormant system deteriorate quicker than if in use? I will ask the question when I contact one of the companies that specialise in such work.

I think that as long as you can Bypass it (if possible) in a non Euro 6, nobody would care. When you go back to the Euro 6 Zone then you need to reactive the Ad Blue thing so you are not breaking any laws.

MrMike · Feb 2, 2024

Cheshire cat said:
Thanks Denis
Interesting reading and a sound persuasion as to why I should leave well alone also.
My reason for considering otherwise was, a friend who is a haulage contractor running Scania and Mercedes wagons says that AdBlue systems are a pain for him. Like many other contractors, the system has been bypassed to improve reliability bearing in mind many of his problems are actually down to the AdBlue system itself.

I'd be interested to see what issues he is having with DEF, in AU its evaporation issues with mine vehicles operating at high ambient temperatures and are relatively stationary causing crystallisation of the urea.

Cheshire cat · Feb 2, 2024

MrMike said:
I'd be interested to see what issues he is having with DEF, in AU its evaporation issues with mine vehicles operating at high ambient temperatures and are relatively stationary causing crystallisation of the urea.

My friends wagons are mainly salt spreaders but before that, his fleet was doing mainly local work and not many long journeys of more than perhaps 100 miles. He always keeps his vehicles very well maintained.

Tinerfeño · Feb 2, 2024

This is one of the reasons mine will be petrol-engined if I can somehow accept the vast amount of electronics in IG. I stopped my purchase project in October ...

One problem source in diesels will be DPF. I just last Monday burned carbon particle deposits from customer's D3.

bemax · Feb 2, 2024

ChasingOurTrunks said:
So here's question:

What happens when you run out of AdBlue?

I was in Ireland recently in a rented diesel Opel - and I loved it - but we ran low on AdBlue and a quick google suggested that the vehicle would enter a limp-home state and not run right.

Is that expected of the Grenadier?

I can understand if its the same due to regulations but it would be a shame - stranger things have happened than getting a stick through a tank of ancillary fluids in the bush, and so for actual backcountry troubleshooting it would be good to know how these parts behave when there's a problem or failure.

I presume you get a certain distance to drive and after that it will go into limp moe. A companys seat had a problem with the adblue quality sensor and it allowed to go 1000 or 1500 km before it stops. That should be sufficient to fix the tank or refill it.

DenisM · Feb 2, 2024

bemax said:
I presume you get a certain distance to drive and after that it will go into limp moe. A companys seat had a problem with the adblue quality sensor and it allowed to go 1000 or 1500 km before it stops. That should be sufficient to fix the tank or refill it.

If the diesel Grenadier runs out of DEF (AdBlue) it will keep running until the engine is shut down. It won't restart until the DEF tank is replenished.

alexandruast · Jun 29, 2024

On the left hand side, in the rear wheel arch, is the SCR module. Unplug the two connectors and see what happens. Running mine unplugged, as a test, since yesterday. Nothing unusual so far.
It might be an Easter egg hidden by the tech team, in case of emergencies. I bumped on it while installing a diesel heater.

Tom D · Jun 29, 2024

alexandruast said:
On the left hand side, in the rear wheel arch, is the SCR module. Unplug the two connectors and see what happens. Running mine unplugged, as a test, since yesterday. Nothing unusual so far.
It might be an Easter egg hidden by the tech team, in case of emergencies. I bumped on it while installing a diesel heater.
View attachment 7861587

Are you sure you unplugged the right wires? If so this is fantastic news!

Tinerfeño · Jun 29, 2024

Just a reminder: In Europe tampering the emission system may cause severe fines depending on country. For sure UK and Finland have these activea and fines are thousands.

And new diesels will be connected to OBD fault reader in yearly inspection (MoT, ITV, etc.) and disconnected controller will surely rise a code.

Tom D · Jun 29, 2024

I'm not looking to deactivate mine. However If there's a system malfunction I'd like a workaround to get me home. If its as simple as unplugging it that would be perfect.

Interestingly I have only topped mine up twice in 20,000 miles. So I seem to be using a lot less than some..

anand · Jun 29, 2024

Tom D said:
Interestingly I have only topped mine up twice in 20,000 miles. So I seem to be using a lot less than some..

That's lovely, while not grenadier related at all, our 3.0L Sprinter uses ~10L every 1,300-1,400mi (every 2 tanks of fuel) since getting the Renntech remap

landmannnn · Jun 30, 2024

DenisM said:
Having read yet again in detail, the "BMW University' B57 engine training document posted on this forum, I am beginning to change my view on EGR and AdBlue (DEF) deletion! Coupled with this I have sought other explanations regarding the function of the Cat. converter (= SCR) and the particulate filter (DPF).
The B57 setup in the Grenadier has two devices which separate oil from the gases in the EGR system (precluding the need for catch cans). Further, the non-combustible gases in the EGR system are siphoned off and treated via the DEF /AdBlue system . I hadn't realised the 'subtleties' of this engine until I examined these in detail. The "Euro6" standard, despite my initial 'reluctant squirming" to accept, actually maintains power and torque as well as producing a much cleaner outcome which should enhance engine life. The adherence to regular oil changes using high quality low ash oils is critical also to reduce the gradual build up within the DPF of non combustible deposits....
It's given me good reason to leave well alone...
So endeth the lesson for today

Just adding to this, simplistically there are two methods of reducing NOx emissions.

1. An aggressive EGR passing exhaust into the combustion chamber. Exhaust gases having limited oxygen, combustion temperatures are lower and less NOx gases are produced. This introduces unwanted soot into the intake and reduces engine efficiency.

2. Injecting urea into the exhaust which converts the NOx gases into nitrogen and water. It is more complicated but treats the exhaust not the engine combustion.

Euro 6 and its equivalents generally have both, it is up to the manufacturer to decide which method is the main way of reducing NOx.

As I said, a bit simplistic, but in the long term it is better to have the focus on urea injection rather than an EGR.

alexandruast · Jun 30, 2024

Tinerfeño said:
Just a reminder: In Europe tampering the emission system may cause severe fines depending on country. For sure UK and Finland have these activea and fines are thousands.

And new diesels will be connected to OBD fault reader in yearly inspection (MoT, ITV, etc.) and disconnected controller will surely rise a code.

I live in Europe. I want to be able to decide how my vehicle runs, and I don't care about green/eco living, disclaimers and warnings. I love being mindful and not waste resources, but greenwashing turned this to a whole new level of cancel culture and progresist agenda. I already pay pollution tax, included in the fuel prices. My IG is rarely driven and, when it is, it's usually overlanding and not city driving so SCR is almost useless. I want to have the option of bypassing it, if it malfunctions or if there is no adblue available. I am glad Ineos thought about it and left a backdoor. Kudos to them!

shawtrav · Jul 24, 2024

AnD3rew said:
I thought a full tank would last that long, and it might come close if you were very lucky but it’s pushing it. But I have done 13,000km and have had to put 30litres in so far, although I just put the last 10 in last week.

I had a diesel Grenadier for 6 months, which I replaced with a diesel Defender which I have now owned for 6 months. Both have 6 cylinder 3 litre diesels, both around 250bhp, and I did circa 8,000 miles in each vehicle. My Grenadier used a huge amount of AdBlue, my Defender does not yet want a top-up. How can 2 modern and apparently similar diesels have such different consumption of AdBlue?

shawtrav · Jul 24, 2024

alexandruast said:
I live in Europe. I want to be able to decide how my vehicle runs, and I don't care about green/eco living, disclaimers and warnings. I love being mindful and not waste resources, but greenwashing turned this to a whole new level of cancel culture and progresist agenda. I already pay pollution tax, included in the fuel prices. My IG is rarely driven and, when it is, it's usually overlanding and not city driving so SCR is almost useless. I want to have the option of bypassing it, if it malfunctions or if there is no adblue available. I am glad Ineos thought about it and left a backdoor. Kudos to them!

https://www.masperformance.co.uk/adblue-removal

if you want to be rid of this ridiculous system

Eric · Jul 24, 2024

shawtrav said:
I had a diesel Grenadier for 6 months, which I replaced with a diesel Defender which I have now owned for 6 months. Both have 6 cylinder 3 litre diesels, both around 250bhp, and I did circa 8,000 miles in each vehicle. My Grenadier used a huge amount of AdBlue, my Defender does not yet want a top-up. How can 2 modern and apparently similar diesels have such different consumption of AdBlue?

I think it has more to do with the "diesel gate" scandal that really hurt German's VW in respect of compensation and regulatory payments. BMW are airing on the cautious side to make sure any regulatory testing by the EU ensure they comply with emissions

landmannnn · Jul 24, 2024

shawtrav said:
I had a diesel Grenadier for 6 months, which I replaced with a diesel Defender which I have now owned for 6 months. Both have 6 cylinder 3 litre diesels, both around 250bhp, and I did circa 8,000 miles in each vehicle. My Grenadier used a huge amount of AdBlue, my Defender does not yet want a top-up. How can 2 modern and apparently similar diesels have such different consumption of AdBlue?

It is a trade off between EGR valve and adblue.
You can have an aggressive EGR and less adblue. Or you can have a light touch EGR and high adblue. And of course a range in-between.

IA have chosen a light touch EGR and high adblue. That is good, we don't want all that soot going through the engine.

Cheshire cat · Jul 24, 2024

Currently, with 12,000 miles I don’t consider my Adblue consumption as excessive. That said I do not have the hard experience of Shawtrav. My experience is subjective only.

globalgregors · Jul 25, 2024

landmannnn said:
It is a trade off between EGR valve and adblue.
You can have an aggressive EGR and less adblue. Or you can have a light touch EGR and high adblue. And of course a range in-between.

IA have chosen a light touch EGR and high adblue. That is good, we don't want all that soot going through the engine.

EGR also compromises performance at high altitude, could be this was a factor.

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