Towing Again

DCPU said:

Did you get anywhere with this?

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If you mean did I get the detachable version, then yes been using it for a few months. Spot on for my caravan and trailer.

It was more in terms of a conversation with Ineos/your agent:

"Dan Bowdler there is looking in to it and will call me back." (I don't know who he is)

And the point you made:

"Is as I suspect the E11 type approval number on DCPUs one ends in a 6 the they are good for all versions of the Grenny."

Just looking for confirmation from Ineos, either explicit by statement or implicit by selling the part for an M1 vehicle, with regard to the legalities.

DCPU said:

It was more in terms of a conversation with Ineos/your agent:

"Dan Bowdler there is looking in to it and will call me back." (I don't know who he is)

And the point you made:

"Is as I suspect the E11 type approval number on DCPUs one ends in a 6 the they are good for all versions of the Grenny."

Just looking for confirmation from Ineos, either explicit by statement or implicit by selling the part for an M1 vehicle, with regard to the legalities.

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sorry mate, got it now. Ok from the information I received from Brink and Ineos, the detachable version is fully compliant with the M1 version as well as the N1.
The weight is the same as the normal one at 350Kg.
For the first two years (don't know the start date) it will be sold exclusively by Ineos.
I find it much better for towing and when not in use I take it off and use one of the rubber "bungs" you identified to keep the mount clean.

PBD said:

sorry mate, got it now. Ok from the information I received from Brink and Ineos, the detachable version is fully compliant with the M1 version as well as the N1.
The weight is the same as the normal one at 350Kg.
For the first two years (don't know the start date) it will be sold exclusively by Ineos.
I find it much better for towing and when not in use I take it off and use one of the rubber "bungs" you identified to keep the mount clean.

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+1 for the Ineos (Brinks) detachable 2" receiver hitch & rubber bung

PBD said:

sorry mate, got it now. Ok from the information I received from Brink and Ineos, the detachable version is fully compliant with the M1 version as well as the N1.
The weight is the same as the normal one at 350Kg.
For the first two years (don't know the start date) it will be sold exclusively by Ineos.
I find it much better for towing and when not in use I take it off and use one of the rubber "bungs" you identified to keep the mount clean.

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I purchased the 2” receiver socket towball from Ineos./Harwoods not cheap though £169.22 + vat

DCPU said:

View attachment 7824134View attachment 7824136View attachment 7824135

Looks very similar to one from here:

Tow ball 3,5t lowered, incl. 2- to 4-hole-adapter

Swan neck tow ball 3,5 t incl. adapter plate with adaptation from 2- to 4-hole mounting; especially compatible with simultaneous use of a hook type…

www.nakatanenga.de

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I’ve been keeping an eye on this thread for a while because I tend to get involved with dragging all sorts of stuff around. Some of it is road bound & therefore has to be legal, the rest is non-tarmac (as against off-road) and so could be all sorts and weights putting abstruse loads onto whatever hitch the rope/chain/wire/etc is attached to. As I have no wish to kill, injure or damage my kit, a certain amount of nouse* is needed to stay safe.

The two main on-road trailers are a twin axle caravan and a tri-axle tilt bed trailer. Both are sensitive to hitch height and, fortunately (as I found out after the fact) I’d ordered an N1 Grenadier. That meant I can play around with hitches that are “E” marked. Both trailers require a hitch height of 375mm if I am to avoid scraping the trailer rear on the deck. He tri-axle would probably survive, but the caravan risks getting expensive a around £5k for the moulding alone. So, after an internet hunt, I sourced this from Lithuania: massive, heavy, quality and offsets the hitch from under the spare wheel. Love it.

For the non-road stuff, anything from old tanks (oil & very carefully!) through tree trunks to static (well, they were til I moved them!) caravans, a variety of hitches is needed. The Gren hitch is great for that – and my own fabricated shackle hitch through the ring and ball the Gren came with to my NATO hitch; all have served.

But for this sort of stuff, there is no way that I would contemplate a hitch on the bottom of a drop plate. The loads are just too great. There is a reason that the Defender type drop plate has side bars welded to it. There is also a reason that the plate is so long. The drop plate here is not too bad as the ball centre is above the plate bolts. Were it to fail it would have to bend the drop plate under the hitch point before it could wrench the tow ball out of the trailer coupling. A plate any longer though is unsafe unless it has the strengthening side bars and is bolted top and bottom (hence the greater length) on the Gren hitch plate.

Just very annoying that Ineos didn’t apply the same certification to M1 as well.

PS. the Ifor Williams TB5201-353 tilt bed trailer jockey wheel clears the rear door by over 100mm. Handy, but the Lunar Delta one doesn’t.

* nouse - northern English for common sense as applied to the job in hand.

Hicarus said:

* nouse - northern English for common sense as applied to the job in hahand.

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Very nice of you to explain local slang
Also nice to share your personal towing preferences and wishes.

Jean Mercier said:

Very nice of you to explain local slang
Also nice to share your personal towing preferences and wishes.

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Sorry Jean, there's slang and dialect. Dialect is words that come down from older languages. Slang is modern.
There, bit more information for you!

Hicarus said:

Sorry Jean, there's slang and dialect. Dialect is words that come down from older languages. Slang is modern.
There, bit more information for you!

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Therefore it is dialect?
I should have known according to your age (or mine).
Anyway ... I didn’t know the difference between the two

Jean Mercier said:

Therefore it is dialect?
I should have known according to your age (or mine).
Anyway ... I didn’t know the difference between the two

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All credit to you for your language skills but it a sad day when there's no new facts!
Yes, 'nouse' is dialect: us northern English have lots of words derived from Danish & Norwegian invaders all those centuries ago.

DCPU said:

Yep ~ I don't think this was available when any of us were ordering in Europe, but it's definitely there now as a parts order.

I know nothing about German towing law, but this has full European type approval.?

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I spoke with my dealer again regarding the plug-in trailer hitch. After clarification with Ineos Germany, my previous statement is confirmed. The plug-in trailer hitch in the square hole can be ordered as a spare part for all Grenadiers as an accessory. But: In the EU there is no approval for this tow hitch. He told me that it is approved in Australia and Africa. He did not say anything about UK and USA. So there is at least for me (Trialmaster) unfortunately no alternative, except the standard tow ball. This is very annoying.

rovie said:

I spoke with my dealer again regarding the plug-in trailer hitch. After clarification with Ineos Germany, my previous statement is confirmed. The plug-in trailer hitch in the square hole can be ordered as a spare part for all Grenadiers as an accessory. But: In the EU there is no approval for this tow hitch. He told me that it is approved in Australia and Africa. He did not say anything about UK and USA. So there is at least for me (Trialmaster) unfortunately no alternative, except the standard tow ball. This is very annoying.

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Is this right? But: In the EU there is no approval for this tow hitch. As there seems few restrictions on the N1 version, I went looking and found the receiver hitch in my post above (1692622971004.png). This was described as Euro compliant with a 3500kg load, a S value of 22.5Kn and a hitch load of 350kg. Suited me so I bought one and it IS quite a lump, solid.
This is the paperwork for it. Hope this helps.

​

Hicarus said:

Is this right? But: In the EU there is no approval for this tow hitch. As there seems few restrictions on the N1 version, I went looking and found the receiver hitch in my post above (1692622971004.png). This was described as Euro compliant with a 3500kg load, a S value of 22.5Kn and a hitch load of 350kg. Suited me so I bought one and it IS quite a lump, solid.
This is the paperwork for it. Hope this helps.
View attachment 7824423

​

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nose weight only 250 kg!

Hicarus said:

Is this right? But: In the EU there is no approval for this tow hitch. As there seems few restrictions on the N1 version, I went looking and found the receiver hitch in my post above (1692622971004.png). This was described as Euro compliant with a 3500kg load, a S value of 22.5Kn and a hitch load of 350kg. Suited me so I bought one and it IS quite a lump, solid.
This is the paperwork for it. Hope this helps.
View attachment 7824423

​

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I can only repeat what my dealer has just received as an answer from INEOS Germany.
He did not talk about the UK, nor did he know whether the UK is still treated like the EU or not. Therefore, he did not make any statement on this. You have to clarify this directly with INEOS UK.
It's about the vehicle, just as @Eric mentioned.

If someone does receive approval for this in Germany, I would be grateful for the information.

There was a similar issue with the Defender 2 decades ago. Basically, the NATO trailer coupling was not registered. But there were TÜV (MOT) test stations that actually registered this NATO tow hitch. And they did so in the very area where the British Rhine Army was stationed during the occupation. Because this type of tow hitch was known there. So we all went on a pilgrimage to this test centre and got the registration.

rovie said:

I can only repeat what my dealer has just received as an answer from INEOS Germany.
He did not talk about the UK, nor did he know whether the UK is still treated like the EU or not. Therefore, he did not make any statement on this. You have to clarify this directly with INEOS UK.
It's about the vehicle, just as @Eric mentioned.

If someone does receive approval for this in Germany, I would be grateful for the information.

There was a similar issue with the Defender 2 decades ago. Basically, the NATO trailer coupling was not registered. But there were TÜV (MOT) test stations that actually registered this NATO tow hitch. And they did so in the very area where the British Rhine Army was stationed during the occupation. Because this type of tow hitch was known there. So we all went on a pilgrimage to this test centre and got the registration.

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I deleted my post because I just noticed that @Hicarus was referring to N1

DCPU said:

In the past yes to waxoyl but don't think I'm interested in Lanoguard if it's a regular reapplication early 12 months.

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Hi DCPU - have you applied any underbody treatment yet?

No I'm going au naturale at present, whether I'll regret it, only time will tell.

Today I drove to a trailer dealer and looked at the 2-axle car transport trailers and hooked up the one that fits my size to the trailer hitch.
My worries were unfounded. The load floor is 8 cm higher at the front than at the rear. With the large drawbar load of the Grenadier, I can move the vehicle to be loaded a little more forward, so that the loading area comes more into the horizontal. I am now relaxed. The experienced dealer has given his ok.

tartan shepherd said:

I guess fit one retrospectively and take your chances. You'll still need the wiring, best done at the factory.

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And here is the problem. I figured, that by the time the Grenadier launched there would be a host of after market accessories including the option to fit a Tow hitch with Ball & Pin, or Ball or as some are saying a 'NATO claw' style. But as i have been informed directly from INEOS, no such after market accessories are yet availabe, so no after market wiring loom to facilitate the 7 Pin or 13 Pin single or double electrics needed to power lights etc on trailers. The fitting of tow bars seem straightforwards, however the wiring loom not so. INEOS are very unclear if this will ever be resolved. So, if you are ordering one, make sure you add the Tow Hitch option.

DCPU said:

No I'm going au naturale at present, whether I'll regret it, only time will tell.

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My guess is that you will, but it may be a year or two. For example, the inner wing fixings seem to be 6mm torx into steel rivets. Those in the rear aluminium panel are Series Landy problems. On mine the torx screws all over were already showing signs of corrosion. Also, all the chassis, steering & suspension bolts are BZP coated. This winter's salt will not be good there.