Unacceptable build quality issues on delivery?

DaveB · Aug 9, 2023

GrenadierDan said:
Dave,

After my inspection I raised the issues of rubber steering boot and incorrectly fixed roof strips with the agent who indicated that Ineos are normally very good at responding. The response I got from the agent was that all the vehicles they had were like that. That might be the case but doesn't make it right. I then raised the issue with Ineos's customer service department who have been wonderful and polite. The result of multiple phone calls is always the same. A heart felt apology saying they had escalated the issue and are awaiting a response. I am patiently waiting this response while the car sits on the dealership floor.

These are not big issues, and in fact I could probably fix them myself. However, with a new car I don't believe I shouldn't have to do this. I have harbored concerns about Ineos Automotives ability to support their cars for some time and unfortunately these concerns have proved to be justified in my case. I am heartened to hear you have had a better experience.

My other concern is that Ineos have promised to make parts and workshop manuals available to owners. With Ineos's limited support network I see the provision of this documentation as critical to the ownership experience as I will not always have access to approved Ineos agents when using this vehicle as our 'Grey Nomad Truck'. If Ineos walk back from this commitment then in my opinion the vehicle might be 'Built On Purpose' but I would argue it is not fit for purpose.

I currently own a 33 year old ex-military Land Rover Perentie and although the driving experience can be described as 'raw' the old girl can be relied on no matter how far off the beaten track I get. It doesn't often break down but when it does at least I am able to either fix it myself or get it repaired at most mechanics I find. I was hoping that would be the case with the Grenadier. Without the workshop manuals I do not see how this is the case. Until such time as these are available I don't feel comfortable taking the car too far off the beaten track.

I am surprised and disappointed that your agent didn't deal with it.
That is their job not yours.
If all of their vehicles are the same then they can organise a fix for all of them at the same time rather than a number of owners contacting Ineos independently.
When mine is ready for me to collect it I will expect the dealer to have it sorted or good answers for anything that isn't sorted.
They are being paid for pre delivery inspection and vehicle prep.
They now need to earn that money.
If they are not prepared to do that then don't take on the agency.
No matter who is ultimately at fault the dealer is the person you are relying on to deliver and handover your vehicle.
I have been in sales of technical products since 1987 and i would never leave my customer hanging out to dry if there was a problem with a product I had supplied to them.

Solmanic · Aug 9, 2023

GrenadierDan said:
Dave,

After my inspection I raised the issues of rubber steering boot and incorrectly fixed roof strips with the agent who indicated that Ineos are normally very good at responding. The response I got from the agent was that all the vehicles they had were like that. That might be the case but doesn't make it right. I then raised the issue with Ineos's customer service department who have been wonderful and polite. The result of multiple phone calls is always the same. A heart felt apology saying they had escalated the issue and are awaiting a response. I am patiently waiting this response while the car sits on the dealership floor.

Just on the rubber steering boot - I don't know if it was in this thread or another, but there is definitely some opinion that it is not meant to cover the bolt below it. I commented that a similar setup on my G-Wagen does not even have any boot over the steering linkage knuckle. Certainly all photos posted show delivered vehicles with it the same way - bolt exposed - and I believe there is no issue with this. Even if it does look neater with everything covered up.

I wouldn't sweat this.

GrenadierDan · Aug 9, 2023

Solmanic said:
Just on the rubber steering boot - I don't know if it was in this thread or another, but there is definitely some opinion that it is not meant to cover the bolt below it. I commented that a similar setup on my G-Wagen does not even have any boot over the steering linkage knuckle. Certainly all photos posted show delivered vehicles with it the same way - bolt exposed - and I believe there is no issue with this. Even if it does look neater with everything covered up.

I wouldn't sweat this.

Solmanic, That is great to know. I can see how it is the knuckle that is to be protected and there is less need to cover the cinch bolt. If there is a machined surface under the boot on the lower part of the knuckle I could see how that would work. At the end of the day if there is a boot there it needs to be able to form a seal both above and below the knuckle. If in fact that is the correct installation arrangement how difficult would it be for Ineos to say that is the correct installation? It certainly doesn't look right to me with the boot folded back on itself.

As previously indicated the boot issue is only minor. My concern relates to Ineos's ability to respond in a meaningful and timely manner.

AnD3rew · Aug 26, 2023

The only really unacceptable thing I have seen so far is that the bolts on the winch fairlead were literally hanging out and the bolt heads were stripped out like someone had tried to use the wrong size bit on a rattle gun.

Eric · Aug 26, 2023

AnD3rew said:
The only really unacceptable thing I have seen so far is that the bolts on the winch fairlwas were literally hanging out and the bolt heads were stripped out like someone had trid to use the wrong size bit on a rattle gun. View attachment 7824850

Or the wrong pitch thread and knackered the screw set

rovie · Aug 26, 2023

AnD3rew said:
The only really unacceptable thing I have seen so far is that the bolts on the winch fairlwas were literally hanging out and the bolt heads were stripped out like someone had trid to use the wrong size bit on a rattle gun. View attachment 7824850

Something like this must not happen at all and cannot be excused. For me, this is the sloppiness in production mentioned in a thread. In the meantime, I have collected several such examples and forwarded them to Ineos via the dealer.

DCPU · Aug 26, 2023

rovie said:
Something like this must not happen at all and cannot be excused. For me, this is the sloppiness in production mentioned in a thread.

And apparently missed in the normal QA processes, the additional ones (QA) implemented for the start of production, and agent PDI.

GrenadierDan · Aug 29, 2023

I have asked Ineos for an explanation of the steering boot issue and an estimate on timing for the workshop manuals and if they are unable to provide answers to these simple requests could I have my money back. After 5 weeks they have indicated that they will provide a full refund of my order. Looks like I will be a Landcruiser owner rather than a Grenadier owner because Ineos Automotive lack the maturity to run a car company. It is a real shame because the vehicle is basically sound. Unfortunately Ineos Automotive seem to lack insight that vehicle ownership is about customer service as well as the technical merit of the vehicle itself.

Davman · Aug 29, 2023

GrenadierDan said:
I have asked Ineos for an explanation of the steering boot issue and an estimate on timing for the workshop manuals and if they are unable to provide answers to these simple requests could I have my money back. After 5 weeks they have indicated that they will provide a full refund of my order. Looks like I will be a Landcruiser owner rather than a Grenadier owner because Ineos Automotive lack the maturity to run a car company. It is a real shame because the vehicle is basically sound. Unfortunately Ineos Automotive seem to lack insight that vehicle ownership is about customer service as well as the technical merit of the vehicle itself.

Did you sign a contract?

Tomdoc · Aug 29, 2023

GrenadierDan said:
I have asked Ineos for an explanation of the steering boot issue and an estimate on timing for the workshop manuals and if they are unable to provide answers to these simple requests could I have my money back. After 5 weeks they have indicated that they will provide a full refund of my order. Looks like I will be a Landcruiser owner rather than a Grenadier owner because Ineos Automotive lack the maturity to run a car company. It is a real shame because the vehicle is basically sound. Unfortunately Ineos Automotive seem to lack insight that vehicle ownership is about customer service as well as the technical merit of the vehicle itself.

Sorry to hear that mate - is this the right "hill to die on?" I presume you used those very reasonable questions as a test case of Ineos' ability to reply sensibly and in time? Certainly the boot thing is a non-issue and the workshop manuals are coming. I hope you are not too disappointed - I absolutely love my IG.

ADVAW8S · Aug 29, 2023

@GrenadierDan Did you take delivery? On 8/12, you had listing on here to sell it for 130kAUD. You stated that unplanned circumstances, you no longer could accept your order and the dealer had the vehicle.

MattA · Aug 29, 2023

ADVAW8S said:
@GrenadierDan Did you take delivery? On 8/12, you had listing on here to sell it for 130kAUD. You stated that unplanned circumstances, you no longer could accept your order and the dealer had the vehicle.

Maybe the unplanned circumstances are all the build quality issues that are coming up coupled with crap service, delays on parts and broken promises caused zero faith in the car and he wants it gone.
Not sure anyone would plan for a rollout like how this one is panning out, just have a read through this forum, it has most certainly put me off a purchase and would have put 10’s of 1000’s of others off as well

Cheshire cat · Aug 29, 2023

MattA said:
Maybe the unplanned circumstances are all the build quality issues that are coming up coupled with crap service, delays on parts and broken promises caused zero faith in the car and he wants it gone.
Not sure anyone would plan for a rollout like how this one is panning out, just have a read through this forum, it has most certainly put me off a purchase and would have put 10’s of 1000’s of others off as well

Hi Matt
Have you managed to take a look at the satisfaction ratings on this site? Of the actual owners I think the 2.3% that have suffered major problems but still drivable, very unfortunate. I feel their pain as do the 75% + with little or no problems. If you can think of a vehicle with a higher satisfaction rating from actual owners, please let me know.

Wilaspira · Aug 29, 2023

Cheshire cat said:
Hi Matt
Have you managed to take a look at the satisfaction ratings on this site? Of the actual owners I think the 2.3% that have suffered major problems but still drivable, very unfortunate. I feel their pain as do the 75% + with little or no problems. If you can think of a vehicle with a higher satisfaction rating from actual owners, please let me know.

I think it might be worth running the survey again to get a current state of play… My vehicle has gone from subject to minor irritations to non-driveable so I am guessing others might be in same boat

ADVAW8S · Aug 29, 2023

@MattA you sound like someone who is better suited to be a early majority and not a early adopter. There are plenty of established and new manufactures that have a rough start to roll things out. Here are some recent examples. 2023 Toyota tundra, Ford Lighting, 2022 Kia telliride, Tesla (pick your model) Volvo polestar, 2022 jeep wrangler 4xe, Rivian and lucid have serious issues.

The point is everyone has issues. If you are not able to accept the growing pains, maybe wait instead of trying to be first to market. I'm am over the moon happy that you are not purchasing one because then you won't be disappointed. Maybe in 5 years, you might have interest again.

Loc Nar · Aug 30, 2023

I know I'm certainly sympathetic to @MattA. Speaking on behalf of all Americans, which I have not done in a while, I can assure the rest of the world that we all hope and pray that we end up being the "early majority" thanks to the patience, inquisitiveness, resourcefulness, persistence, and stiff upper lips of the "early adopters." Some have the time to selflessly lay that critical foundation and others do not.

MattA · Aug 30, 2023

ADVAW8S said:
@MattA you sound like someone who is better suited to be a early majority and not a early adopter. There are plenty of established and new manufactures that have a rough start to roll things out. Here are some recent examples. 2023 Toyota tundra, Ford Lighting, 2022 Kia telliride, Tesla (pick your model) Volvo polestar, 2022 jeep wrangler 4xe, Rivian and lucid have serious issues.

The point is everyone has issues. If you are not able to accept the growing pains, maybe wait instead of trying to be first to market. I'm am over the moon happy that you are not purchasing one because then you won't be disappointed. Maybe in 5 years, you might have interest again.

I really hope it doesn’t take 5 years for improvements, on paper they are the perfect fit, I n reality taking a current Grenadier into outback Australia with the better half van and loaded to the maximum would be flirting with danger
I am keeping a very close eye on what comes out over the next year or 2

Loc Nar · Aug 30, 2023

MattA said:
I really hope it doesn’t take 5 years for improvements, on paper they are the perfect fit, I n reality taking a current Grenadier into outback Australia with the better half van and loaded to the maximum would be flirting with danger
I am keeping a very close eye on what comes out over the next year or 2

Me too, man. I'm right there with you. I've ordered one, and can afford it, but only because I work my ass off. I'm hoping to get a vehicle I can depend on off the lot. I initially had that confidence, but do not have it right now. I'm waiting and hoping to see Ineos take the necessary steps to restore that confidence. I see fits and spurts of such an initiative, but hope to see a sustained effort.

AnD3rew · Aug 30, 2023

AnD3rew said:
The only really unacceptable thing I have seen so far is that the bolts on the winch fairlead were literally hanging out and the bolt heads were stripped out like someone had tried to use the wrong size bit on a rattle gun. View attachment 7824850

Update on this, Agent has replaced promptly with a new set of black powder coated ones.

DCPU · Aug 30, 2023

Are they shipping with powder coated fasteners now or has your agent just upgraded you?

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Unacceptable build quality issues on delivery?

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Inch deep and a mile wide.

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Inch deep and a mile wide.

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