Diff locks.

DCPU · Jul 4, 2023

And in case anyone thinks Wading Mode would have helped:

Tazzieman · Jul 4, 2023

Well it sounds like a bad case of early adopter syndrome

I'm sure the software update will fix it. Well fairly sure, or reasonably confident , if not slightly more than quite hopeful

DCPU · Jul 4, 2023

Well we are all strapped in and along for the ride now. It's bumpy, the coffee is cold and the sandwiches have curled up edges but we can see the sun lit uplands on the horizon...

Tazzieman · Jul 4, 2023

DCPU said:
Well we are all strapped in and along for the ride now. It's bumpy, the coffee is cold and the sandwiches have curled up edges but we can see the sun lit uplands on the horizon...

Play some toons..

That's the Spirit - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

255/85 · Jul 4, 2023

Fidei Defensor said:
I can't think of any real-life situation where you would want the front locked and the rear unlocked!

Starting at 12:47 in this video is a perfect example of when to use a front locker only..

I Off-Road the 2024 INEOS Grenadier!

With the transfer case locked the vehicle lifts the front right and rear left wheels (there's more articulation in the rear) as it mounts the gravel bar. Foot on the brake and the rear locker is engaged. Though the left rear wheel is locked to the right it's still without traction. Watch the right rear wheel drive the vehicle to the left and along the hummock in an undesired direction and toward possible calamity in the wrong scenario. This is a perfect moment to have started with the front locker only to get the vehicle aligned correctly and then engage the rear if needed.

Engaging the front and the rear at the same may have had no difference in the outcome as the right rear wheel would have still overpowered the left front which is on soft gravel. The left front is in the air the whole time.

anand · Jul 4, 2023

255/85 said:
Engaging the front and the rear at the same may have had no difference in the outcome as the right rear wheel would have still overpowered the left front which is on soft gravel. The left front is in the air the whole time.

Honestly, and I speak from driving that exact section, all it needed was a gentle application of the brakes to stop the spinning wheels from spinning and send power to the side with traction and ... as well as a lot less steering input.

Making the front locker "easy" to engage will put the layperson in immense amounts of trouble, specifically because vehicles with front lockers engaged don't like to turn, and the untrained individual does not grasp this or know to expect it.

Tom D · Jul 4, 2023

it will be pretty easy to wire the lockers directly to the switches and bypass the Cambus system. It will probably be hard to make the dash lights work though.

Cheshire cat · Jul 4, 2023

Took my Grenadier for a drive tonight around 200 acres of recently mown fields. This time I was having more success with high/low, Centre diff lock and rear diff lock. Got front diff to engage once but not a second time. Carried on practicing with success on all but front diff. Front diff displayed red on the status screen throughout as it has done previously. Overall, progress but front diff probably needs looking at.

DCPU · Jul 5, 2023

anand said:
Making the front locker "easy" to engage will put the layperson in immense amounts of trouble, specifically because vehicles with front lockers engaged don't like to turn, and the untrained individual does not grasp this or know to expect it.

It's a niche vehicle, made for the few not the many. Going where you will need diff locks is not something that accidentally happens.

Who are these "laypersons" that will suddenly appear in a Grenadier?

I'd recommend everyone locks a front diff and sees what happens when you try and steer ~ there's no "immense amounts of trouble" just very particular driving characteristics. No different to trying to steer out of a rut but being pushed along in them.

ECrider · Jul 5, 2023

Cheshire cat said:
Took my Grenadier for a drive tonight around 200 acres of recently mown fields. This time I was having more success with high/low, Centre diff lock and rear diff lock. Got front diff to engage once but not a second time. Carried on practicing with success on all but front diff. Front diff displayed red on the status screen throughout as it has done previously. Overall, progress but front diff probably needs looking at.

That sounds like progress.

Did you do anything noticeably different to gain more success?

Cheshire cat · Jul 5, 2023

ECrider said:
That sounds like progress.

Did you do anything noticeably different to gain more success?

Absolutely nothing different. A very small possibility that the grass being dampened by recent rain may have caused wheels to slip. Will try again later today, tomorrow and everyday that I have time in the hope they just need working.

Tazzieman · Jul 5, 2023

DCPU said:
I'd recommend everyone locks a front diff and sees what happens when you try and steer

Just don't try it on a side slope

Fidei Defensor · Jul 5, 2023

DCPU said:
I once snapped a rear halfshaft on a track. Whipped the broken end out via the hub and limped though the rest of the track with just front wheel drive. On several occasions getting stuck on simple cross axle situations. If I could have locked the front it would have been simple to maintain traction.

Just the fact that an inoperable rear locker takes out a perfectly functional front one is madness.

Would you apply the same logic to the front and rear windscreen wipers?

Should selecting a heated seat disable the air conditioning?

Surely, if you snapped on half-shaft and the rear as locked, you still had drive to the other rear wheel?
And, in my D90, it was the air supply to the lockers that was linked, but as the switches were interconnected with hose, it would be easy to reroute the air supply. That being said, with well over 20 yers on my McNamara lockers, they have never failed......

anand · Jul 5, 2023

DCPU said:
Who are these "laypersons" that will suddenly appear in a Grenadier?

After having talked with several hundred reservation holders, I can tell you that in the US at least, many are "laypersons" who had their first taste of driving off pavement at the PTO2 Tour

DCPU · Jul 5, 2023

Well

anand said:
After having talked with several hundred reservation holders

I'm impressed with your stamina...

anand said:
, I can tell you that in the US at least, many are "laypersons" who had their first taste of driving off pavement at the PTO2 Tour

Well let's see how many turn out to be tyre kickers or there for the free coffee and a day out.

anand · Jul 5, 2023

DCPU said:
I'm impressed with your stamina...

It wasn't the worst way to spend 3 months

255/85 · Jul 5, 2023

anand said:
Honestly, and I speak from driving that exact section, all it needed was a gentle application of the brakes to stop the spinning wheels from spinning and send power to the side with traction and ... as well as a lot less steering input.

I should have said "The front right wheel was in the air the whole time" which, in my opinion, made locking the front necessary because of the loose terrain under the front left - tight steering or not. There was only one front wheel with (limited) traction available. Left foot braking does apply the brakes on all wheels simultaneously which isn't always good either but I'm no expert by any means. Wouldn't that have effectively "locked" the rear resulting in the same shove to the left from that axle?

If the vehicle had been in a critical position I would have likely wanted a winch. But it wasn't so my thoughts are just speculative. Thanks for the more knowledgeable response and solution.

anand said:
Making the front locker "easy" to engage will put the layperson in immense amounts of trouble, specifically because vehicles with front lockers engaged don't like to turn, and the untrained individual does not grasp this or know to expect it.

And that's why it's set-up the way it is. A little knowledge (in my case) can be a dangerous thing. I consider a front locker a very occasion use feature outside of the hardcore rockcrawling world but others may be more confident in its use.

Tazzieman said:
Just don't try it on a side slope

In my experience if you can get the vehicle to progress when sidehilling with open diffs you're better off. The higher traction/low torque wheels basically act as a drag against sliding downhill.

Tom D said:
I think the system has been designed by the lawyers. I’d have preferred a simple switch , on or off. But some idiot would have switched it on on the motorway, crashed and then sued. So here we are..

Yes sir.

DCPU · Jul 5, 2023

Fidei Defensor said:
Surely, if you snapped on half-shaft and the rear as locked, you still had drive to the other rear wheel?

Good question ~ if Ineos logic is to use wheel speed sensors to confirm lock, then are you going to get an error message on the rear lock and not be able to proceed to the front lock?

Fidei Defensor · Jul 6, 2023

DCPU said:
Good question ~ if Ineos logic is to use wheel speed sensors to confirm lock, then are you going to get an error message on the rear lock and not be able to proceed to the front lock?

I'm not talking about the Grenadier and its electronics: just the principle of locked diffs. If the center is locked and the rear is locked, won't you still have drive to the one wheel with a half shaft?

AnD3rew · Jul 7, 2023

Fidei Defensor said:
I'm not talking about the Grenadier and its electronics: just the principle of locked diffs. If the center is locked and the rear is locked, won't you still have drive to the one wheel with a half shaft?

Thats an interesting question? I wanted to say you will still have drive to the front, but without a lock on the diff, the wheel with resistance will likely not get drive as the power will go to the side with no resistance. However now I think about it, with no half shaft I am second guessing myself and I can’t picture what is happening inside the diff without a half shaft?

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