Unacceptable build quality issues on delivery?

Jean Mercier · Jun 27, 2023

Nomad said:
Jean - your content is always constructive and enlightening.

Thanks, I knew you were not pointing ME with your finger, but I wanted to support also those who are investigating possible issues.
I had a former colleague who was a nerd in this, but he was so often right! He had two degrees: mechanical AND electronical engineer.
He always saw stuff I didn't notice!

(Almost) each time I read a "criticizing documented comment" I jump under the car (the word jump is not appropriate for my age

) or open the bonnet. Sometimes I don't have the issue, sometimes I have, and be sure I will do a follow-up after each difficult trip.

And I criticized Ineos a lot before getting my car: lack of communication, etc. still going on! A shame!
Just look at the thread "sick of waiting" before May 4.

But OK ... all friends on the forum, please

DaveB · Jun 27, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
Personally I like ALL the guys who show faults, based on "pictures" or "experience": mentioning faults is "positive feedback" to:

Ineos: it will help them to improve the car, and for sure some of them are watching this forum

Us, the users: helping each other to "solve" or even better "avoid" problems.

All those who are searching for errors or features or undocumented features are helping others. They are heroes.

What I don't like is:

I mentioned problems to my dealer (whom represents Ineos in my case) from the very beginning and I don't get answers, and no solutions either (although now they told me I could bring back my car for solving some urgent problems: airco?)

I asked information (auxiliary power points and more) and don't get answers: I get them here.

I don't like people who criticizes the car without even having seen more than a YouTube video, especially now that there are cars on the roads.

I will continue to mention errors if I find them.

The things you, DCPU, Ingemar and others are finding on real production vehicles helps all of us in the long run.
They are real issues and hopefully Ineos is paying attention.
This is why I am not unhappy that mine is delayed, as it gives Ineos and the dealers time to correct the found problems, well at least I hope it does.
We need to make sure the issues are tangible and proven so they won't get swamped by rumour and anecdote .

Jean Mercier · Jun 27, 2023

DaveB said:
This is why I am not unhappy that mine is delayed, as it gives Ineos and the dealers time to correct the found problems, well at least I hope it does.

I got insider information that your car is due April 1st, all issues fixed, year isn't mentioned, still happy?

DaveB · Jun 27, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
I got insider information that your car is due April 1st, all issues fixed, year isn't mentioned, still happy?

Who doesn't want to receive something on April Fools Day?

evomind · Jun 28, 2023

DaveB said:
No, but repeating someone elses issue, that you haven't seen or experienced yourself, is just gossip.
One person finds the RHD footrest uncomfortable and 200 people post about it. Even people in LHD markets, who haven't even seen a production vehicle yet.
Another person says the footrest is no problem and nobody reposts it.
Some people are having problems, which is terrible, but they also seem to be overall still positive.
Others are going over the car with a microscope and are also finding amazing things, that Ineos have said they will fix.
we have people comparing it to entry level 4wds and others comparing it to AMG63 G wagens.
Feel 100% free to comment and have input on any topic, but make sure it is something you know, not just something you have heard.
Or that you are confident of the source of the information.
Also accept that the vehicle isn't the right choice for the vast majority of people.
Keep in mind that normally we wouldn't see a new vehicle in the flesh until it was launched on the market.
We would never be able to drive a prototype.

Inherently this is a forum for enthusiasts and for people looking for more information or insights.
Not just for people to make uninformed comments

Well Dave, if the bench mark for posting or making an observation is actual ownership or at least hands on experience then NO ONE in the whole US of A would have anything to post about. (Well maybe a handful)
I for one want a balanced view of a vehicle before dropping 90k.
Most owners who have plunked down serious coin are biased, the truck I just bought is the greatest!
Most of the folks on YouTube who have posted vids of some easy off road course cant gush enough about the truck after driving it up and down a dirt hill.
I anxiously await some in depth on road and off road reviews from the automotive press.
Not that I think they're any smarter, they're not, but at least the better ones are thorough in their reporting and hopefully, collectively, call it as they see it.
As far as driving prototypes it happens all the time. I remember many prototype vehicles being given to press for early reviews. It's not that uncommon.
Now, I cant speak for anyone else, but I like hearing other peoples observations. Most of the complaints you have touched on I HAVE seen on YouTube from actual owners.
Does that count?
I dont take it as gospel, its someones experience or observation.
I will draw my own conclusions, right, wrong, or somewhere in between.
Hey, this vehicle has bugs that have not been fully sorted so sayeth many owners.
Im not sure there is much to debate there and I can understand why some people are upset.
All said and done I think everyone here applauds the effort and tenacity of Ineos to bring such a unique vehicle to market.

DaveB · Jun 28, 2023

evomind said:
Well Dave, if the bench mark for posting or making an observation is actual ownership or at least hands on experience then NO ONE in the whole US of A would have anything to post about. (Well maybe a handful)
I for one want a balanced view of a vehicle before dropping 90k.
Most owners who have plunked down serious coin are biased, the truck I just bought is the greatest!
Most of the folks on YouTube who have posted vids of some easy off road course cant gush enough about the truck after driving it up and down a dirt hill.
I anxiously await some in depth on road and off road reviews from the automotive press.
Not that I think they're any smarter, they're not, but at least the better ones are thorough in their reporting and hopefully, collectively, call it as they see it.
As far as driving prototypes it happens all the time. I remember many prototype vehicles being given to press for early reviews. It's not that uncommon.
Now, I cant speak for anyone else, but I like hearing other peoples observations. Most of the complaints you have touched on I HAVE seen on YouTube from actual owners.
Does that count?
I dont take it as gospel, its someones experience or observation.
I will draw my own conclusions, right, wrong, or somewhere in between.
Hey, this vehicle has bugs that have not been fully sorted so sayeth many owners.
Im not sure there is much to debate there and I can understand why some people are upset.
All said and done I think everyone here applauds the effort and tenacity of Ineos to bring such a unique vehicle to market.

I agree with you on the balanced view and a wide variety of opinions and views is very important
Yes reporters get early prototype drives usually, but not potential customers.
The comments here were more a small number of people posting things that were continuously negative and not necessarily based in fact.
Also some youtube reviewers who seemed pissed off that they weren't invited to Scotland and weren't given long term vehicles to test.
These negative reviews were then picked up by people and posted over and over again as if they were fact.

Like you I also researched the hell out of it before I ordered one, and I had a hell of a time sorting out first hand or reliable information from rhetoric and straight up misinformation.
About a year or so ago there was a guy who kept bagging it out and I traced him down and he was a student from Houston who had never been closer than 5,000 miles from one.

I thought this was a reasonable basic review from the US
Trouble is many reporters and reviewers don't want to give a negative review so they get to keep going on trips.
I noticed one female reporter who was too scared to drive off road.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoR2n436UDU&t=604s

evomind · Jun 28, 2023

DaveB said:
I agree with you on the balanced view and a wide variety of opinions and views is very important
Yes reporters get early prototype drives usually, but not potential customers.
The comments here were more a small number of people posting things that were continuously negative and not necessarily based in fact.
Also some youtube reviewers who seemed pissed off that they weren't invited to Scotland and weren't given long term vehicles to test.
These negative reviews were then picked up by people and posted over and over again as if they were fact.

Like you I also researched the hell out of it before I ordered one, and I had a hell of a time sorting out first hand or reliable information from rhetoric and straight up misinformation.
About a year or so ago there was a guy who kept bagging it out and I traced him down and he was a student from Houston who had never been closer than 5,000 miles from one.

I thought this was a reasonable basic review from the US
Trouble is many reporters and reviewers don't want to give a negative review so they get to keep going on trips.
I noticed one female reporter who was too scared to drive off road.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoR2n436UDU&t=604s

I pretty much agree here.
And youre right about some of the "professional YouTubers" who are afraid to give anything a bad review in the hopes of continued financial gain.
Raiti comes to mind. He is so annoying.
Ive seen the one where the woman didnt want to drive it off road.
Weak.

opsy · Jun 29, 2023

PBD said:
Apparently the gear tolerances are a couple of thou out on the early builds. These vehicles are still working fine but those identified will have them changed in the near future. I do not know how many there are, my vin ends 0698. A schedule will be prepared in near future. I just wanted mine done all at once.

Mine also has a recall on the high/low transfer.

DCPU · Jun 29, 2023

opsy said:
Mine also has a recall on the high/low transfer.

It that a separate recall? Do you know any details?

Trialmaster · Jun 29, 2023

opsy said:
Mine also has a recall on the high/low transfer.

I was informed there will a number of routine recalls to check the boxes (is it an urgent recall or can it be done at the same time software update, as this is what I was led to believe?).

trobex · Jun 29, 2023

I am lost in the myriad of things that I will need to check on or at least keep an eye on during the initial acceptance of the vehicle. Hopefully mine is being built by the non-Peugeot upskilled hands...

Tazzieman · Jun 29, 2023

trobex said:
Hopefully mine is being built by the non-Peugeot upskilled hands...

I see this character assigned to your build

opsy · Jun 29, 2023

DCPU said:
It that a separate recall? Do you know any details?

It sounds the same, it was made on 1st June. But mine is a very early Grenadier. I believe that it was on the first transporter in the UK, with 4 VIP deliveries and one other private delivery.
Being a early adopter I expected a few issues.
I'm still over the moon with what Ineos have delivered and very happy with my local dealership, Busseys in Norfolk.

DCPU · Jun 29, 2023

Just removing the trim panels around the rear seats to see how the batteries are supposed to be taken out and there's a couple of poor earthing connections to highlight (one may have been referred previously?):

This is in the rear passenger footwell on the offside (RHD) - pulled so tight it's actually bent the heatshrink:

* and yes - that's another roll pin about to fall out of the drainage plug!

And another installation issue in the same area - the trim panel on the very edge of the door - the front locating pin/dowel has been well and truly Fubared:

Designers give you wiggle room on the rear pin, so get the front one aligned first, or if you don't really care...

DCPU · Jun 29, 2023

DCPU said:
Utility belt lower, smaller fixings - a number of them are not straight:
View attachment 7811415

Feedback from Ineos is that "If concerned then this would need a body shop intervention so a PWA would need to be submitted prior to the work being done".

Which sort of suggests to me, they're not that bothered...

PBD · Jun 29, 2023

DCPU said:
Feedback from Ineos is that "If concerned then this would need a body shop intervention so a PWA would need to be submitted prior to the work being done".

Which sort of suggests to me, they're not that bothered...

You should worry, my front bumper is an inch lower on the drivers side! Wife recons its pissed!!

Tazzieman · Jun 29, 2023

DCPU said:
Just removing the trim panels around the rear seats to see how the batteries are supposed to be taken out and there's a couple of poor earthing connections to highlight (one may have been referred previously?):
View attachment 7818493
This is in the rear passenger footwell on the offside (RHD) - pulled so tight it's actually bent the heatshrink:
View attachment 7818496
* and yes - that's another roll pin about to fall out of the drainage plug!

And another installation issue in the same area - the trim panel on the very edge of the door - the front locating pin/dowel has been well and truly Fubared:
View attachment 7818497

Designers give you wiggle room on the rear pin, so get the front one aligned first, or if you don't really care...
View attachment 7818498

And I cringe whenever I spot an exposed live terminal anywhere on a vehicle

DCPU · Jun 29, 2023

Tazzieman said:
And I cringe whenever I spot an exposed live terminal anywhere on a vehicle

I can't understand it - have regulations changed?

HT · Jun 29, 2023

DaveB said:
The things you, DCPU, Ingemar and others are finding on real production vehicles helps all of us in the long run.
They are real issues and hopefully Ineos is paying attention.
This is why I am not unhappy that mine is delayed, as it gives Ineos and the dealers time to correct the found problems, well at least I hope it does.
We need to make sure the issues are tangible and proven so they won't get swamped by rumour and anecdote .

Dave, what’s your gut feel for the standard of your production. Yours and mine have both passed FOK just recently and I’m wondering how many of the little issues identified by current owners will have been corrected on our production. Whilst I doubt the computer issues will be resolved yet, I wonder if, by the time ours went through the production line, had they started putting the mud guards in the firewall on the right way and properly placing the rubber boot over the steering arm … those kind of minor growing pains that have been mentioned here.
It’s been said so many times, but Gee I hope someone from ineos is monitoring this page - they’d be wise to do so!

DaveB · Jun 29, 2023

HT said:
Dave, what’s your gut feel for the standard of your production. Yours and mine have both passed FOK just recently and I’m wondering how many of the little issues identified by current owners will have been corrected on our production. Whilst I doubt the computer issues will be resolved yet, I wonder if, by the time ours went through the production line, had they started putting the mud guards in the firewall on the right way and properly placing the rubber boot over the steering arm … those kind of minor growing pains that have been mentioned here.
It’s been said so many times, but Gee I hope someone from ineos is monitoring this page - they’d be wise to do so!

It is costing them a lot of money to rework things after they come off the line so I am going to assume they are regularly improving things.
They aren't running 24/7 so changes can be made without interrupting the line.
So far over the last 30 tears I have never pulled trim and fixtures off looking for things that are wrong, so I might take the same approach this time also.

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