Grenadier winch bumper uk vs australia

globalgregors · Dec 17, 2022

Brookers78 said:
Sadly the Grenadier will not come with any solution, they have all been put forwards but adding anything hard ahead of the Fairlead would have meant the vehicle would not have passed the pedestrian safety tests

Ah, it’s good to understand that - thanks @Brookers78 .
I’m not sure the same constraint exists for Australia but that‘s a conversation for Ineos not you guys.

DCPU · Dec 17, 2022

It's interesting to see how JLR met the same legislation with the new Defender. There's a closed thimble on the eye and is held out of the way, beneath and behind the fairlead by a pin through a bracket.

The plastic coverplate also looks near identical to the Ineos solution.

Screenshot_20221217_093521_com.google.android.youtube.jpg

Screenshot_20221217_094115_com.google.android.youtube.jpg

Screenshot_20221217_093944_com.google.android.youtube.jpg

The kit also includes a hook:

Screenshot_20221217_132832_com.google.android.youtube.jpg

Logsplitter · Dec 17, 2022

DCPU said:
It's interesting to see how JLR met the same legislation with the new Defender. There's a closed thimble on the eye and is held out of the way, beneath and behind the fairlead by a pin through a bracket.

The plastic coverplate also looks near identical to the Ineos solution.
View attachment 7798055 View attachment 7798057 View attachment 7798056
The kit also includes a hook:
View attachment 7798061

Maybe the USA has different legislation

CountyV8 · Dec 17, 2022

Brookers78 said:
Sadly the Grenadier will not come with any solution, they have all been put forwards but adding anything hard ahead of the Fairlead would have meant the vehicle would not have passed the pedestrian safety tests

So we just get a spliced loop??????????????

Brookers78 · Dec 17, 2022

CountyV8 said:
So we just get a spliced loop??????????????

The spliced loop is sized to take the S-RING-50 from the recovery kit so you can carry out closed loop winching.
I run the same system on my own vehicle and prefer it to having a hook as it is a lot more versatile.
When not in use I keep the S-Ring in the glovebox.

CountyV8 · Dec 17, 2022

Brookers78 said:
The spliced loop is sized to take the S-RING-50 from the recovery kit so you can carry out closed loop winching.
I run the same system on my own vehicle and prefer it to having a hook as it is a lot more versatile.
When not in use I keep the S-Ring in the glovebox.
View attachment 7798115

Do we have to cut the loop off and splice the ring into the rope ? for £3400 seems a little stingy why not supply something you can winch with out of the box. Why not just use the steel cable I have with fitted hook . I thought I had ordered a useable winch now we have to modify it from the start.

globalgregors · Dec 18, 2022

Brookers78 said:
The spliced loop is sized to take the S-RING-50 from the recovery kit so you can carry out closed loop winching.
I run the same system on my own vehicle and prefer it to having a hook as it is a lot more versatile.
When not in use I keep the S-Ring in the glovebox.
View attachment 7798115

Closed system I’m onboard with. This being my issue with the Red recovery kit - I’m wanting to move to a system with soft shackles throughout, where the only potential missiles are the (aluminium) winch shackle and recovery ring.

Brookers78 · Dec 18, 2022

globalgregors said:
Closed system I’m onboard with. This being my issue with the Red recovery kit - I’m wanting to move to a system with soft shackles throughout, where the only potential missiles are the (aluminium) winch shackle and recovery ring.

The problem is if you just use a soft shackle you end up with a rope on rope rigging situation that dramatically reduces the MBS of the rope hence the need for the S-RING

Logsplitter · Dec 18, 2022

Brookers78 said:
The problem is if you just use a soft shackle you end up with a rope on rope rigging situation that dramatically reduces the MBS of the rope hence the need for the S-RING

Is that because of the bending radius in the winch rope

Brookers78 · Dec 18, 2022

CountyV8 said:
Do we have to cut the loop off and splice the ring into the rope ? for £3400 seems a little stingy why not supply something you can winch with out of the box. Why not just use the steel cable I have with fitted hook . I thought I had ordered a useable winch now we have to modify it from the start.

No need to cut anything, the loop is the correct size for the S-RING to be popped into the loop when needed and removed when not in use.

We find that a castration band on the rope is a useful addition as under load it allows the rope to take its natural shape but when the load is removed the band holds the ring in place.

DCPU · Dec 18, 2022

Logsplitter said:
Maybe the USA has different legislation

I just grabbed screenshots from a convenient YouTube video ~ that's the same solution as used in UK/EU.

Brookers78 · Dec 18, 2022

Logsplitter said:
Is that because of the bending radius in the winch rope

Yes, partly bend radius and also the heat that is generated.
I've spent many days at the test hose breaking things to see what happens to rope in different scenarios

DCPU · Dec 18, 2022

So in the recommended setup you are illustrating above, was there a consistent place that the rope was snapping at when tested?

Brookers78 · Dec 18, 2022

DCPU said:
So in the recommended setup you are illustrating above, was there a consistent place that the rope was snapping at when tested?

Yes, using the above set up the first point of failure was consistently where the rope enters the drum.
Please bear in mind to achieve this we took the load way beyond the rating of the components.

The integrated winch is a 5.5T model which is possibly more than is needed on a vehicle of this size.
We have spent many weeks field testing over the last few years taking the vehicles into situations that the average owner is unlikely to find themselves in and all testing was done with single line pulls.
The vehicles were always fully loaded to the GVW of 3.5T and to get the line load to 5.5T we had to secure the Grenadier in place and use a much larger vehicle to achieve the max load.
Even with a trailer on this winch will certainly do the job to get the Grenadier through.

Logsplitter · Dec 18, 2022

Brookers78 said:
Yes, using the above set up the first point of failure was consistently where the rope enters the drum.
Please bear in mind to achieve this we took the load way beyond the rating of the components.

The integrated winch is a 5.5T model which is possibly more than is needed on a vehicle of this size.
We have spent many weeks field testing over the last few years taking the vehicles into situations that the average owner is unlikely to find themselves in and all testing was done with single line pulls.
The vehicles were always fully loaded to the GVW of 3.5T and to get the line load to 5.5T we had to secure the Grenadier in place and use a much larger vehicle to achieve the max load.
Even with a trailer on this winch will certainly do the job to get the Grenadier through.

That’s very reassuring. Thanks

DCPU · Dec 18, 2022

Brookers78 said:
We find that a castration band on the rope is a useful addition as under load it allows the rope to take its natural shape but when the load is removed the band holds the ring in place.

I note it's common with some of the soft shackles sold in the sailing markets to have such bands:

but they also feature lanyards to help free off connections that have become tight under load. Any thoughts on these?

Are Ineos going to get a part number for the castration bands?

Logsplitter · Dec 18, 2022

DCPU said:
I note it's common with some of the soft shackles sold in the sailing markets to have such bands:
View attachment 7798137
but they also feature lanyards to help free off connections that have become tight under load. Any thoughts on these?

Are Ineos going to get a part number for the castration bands?

Don’t give the part number for the castration bands to my wife or I’m out of here

bemax · Dec 18, 2022

DCPU said:
I note it's common with some of the soft shackles sold in the sailing markets to have such bands:
View attachment 7798137
but they also feature lanyards to help free off connections that have become tight under load. Any thoughts on these?

Are Ineos going to get a part number for the castration bands?

You mean those rubber rings they use on young male sheep?

Tazzieman · Dec 18, 2022

bemax said:
You mean those rubber rings they use on young male sheep?

Yes
The aftermarket will be able to supply them in a range of complimentary colours.

bemax · Dec 18, 2022

Tazzieman said:
Yes
The aftermarket will be able to supply them in a range of complimentary colours.

What’s the colour the sheep tend to choose?

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