Grenadier winch bumper uk vs australia

Tinki · Dec 10, 2022

Hello Guys ,

I think by now its is almost certain that the Uk model will be getting a very different winch bumper to Australia . Not just the fact that it will be plastic vs metal in Australia ( not commenting on the bulbar .) The bit that really annoys me is the plastic cover that needs to be removed in accessing the rope instead of the very cool in my opinion flip up licence plate .

My question is if the winch is in the same position in both variants are the bumpers interchangeable ? Or even the central portion? Having a good look at pictures it looks to me that the fairlead is really recessed into the bumper of the Uk model compared to the Au model .

Beyond aesthetics the way the fairlead is buried in the bumper i am afraid it will limit the angle you can winch ( i know you are not supposed to winch at that steep of an angle but there are times where you can take educated risks) .

Looking forward to your thoughts .

Regards

Tinki

Tinki

Logsplitter · Dec 10, 2022

Tinki said:
Hello Guys ,

I think by now its is almost certain that the Uk model will be getting a very different winch bumper to Australia . Not just the fact that it will be plastic vs metal in Australia ( not commenting on the bulbar .) The bit that really annoys me is the plastic cover that needs to be removed in accessing the rope instead of the very cool in my opinion flip up licence plate .

My question is if the winch is in the same position in both variants are the bumpers interchangeable ? Or even the central portion? Having a good look at pictures it looks to me that the fairlead is really recessed into the bumper of the Uk model compared to the Au model .

Beyond aesthetics the way the fairlead is buried in the bumper i am afraid it will limit the angle you can winch ( i know you are not supposed to winch at that steep of an angle but there are times where you can take educated risks) .

Looking forward to your thoughts .

Regards

Tinki

Tinki

Good point. Can see that plastic bumper getting wrecked in certain situations
in my previous life of many years building power lines, we would often be using winches at extreme angles, for winching equipment and structures into place and vehicle recovery in extreme situation. Sometimes even using the winch to extricate ourselves out backwards by threading the winch cable underneath the vehicle to an anchor point. You certainly won’t be doing that with such a recessed winch surrounded by a plastic bumper.

Logsplitter · Dec 10, 2022

Just been looking on the internet at images of vehicle mounted front winches. Every one I’ve seen even with a recessed winch, has the fairlead attached at the very front of the vehicle or bumper so avoiding any fouling of the winch rope. Maybe Ineos has some extended fairlead or other solution for customer models ?

Tinki · Dec 10, 2022

The way the uk bumper is set up is like winching form the depths of a plastic funnel. Extended fairleads will not work due to the lenght of the studs that will be needed . I think it might be the only compromise that they accepted. Hence why i am
Hoping i can get a different bumper on it .

CountyV8 · Dec 10, 2022

Tinki said:
The way the uk bumper is set up is like winching form the depths of a plastic funnel. Extended fairleads will not work due to the lenght of the studs that will be needed . I think it might be the only compromise that they accepted. Hence why i am
Hoping i can get a different bumper on it .

The UK winch is set further back I think we will be scouring the AUS parts manual for the better set up the UK one is a joke but regs are regs with the winch there is nowhere to mount spotlights on the UKversion

Krabby · Dec 10, 2022

Provided you could get one, could you replace the UK bumper with the Aus one after delivery?

Logsplitter · Dec 10, 2022

I could possibly be done but in the event of an accident, I think the insurance company would take a dim view of it.

Logsplitter · Dec 10, 2022

I’ve just pulled this photo from the new Landrover defender U.K. brochure. They have the fair lead at the front of the bumper.
I think that for a vehicle that is “Built on purpose “ as the Grenadier is. Then this winch will be used for work as well as self recovery and often in extreme conditions as the utility models may get used by emergency services, utility companies, forestry contractors etc. The Red

winch although good and built on purpose needs to be mounted so it can be used on purpose in my view.

Krabby · Dec 10, 2022

Logsplitter said:
I’ve just pulled this photo from the new Landrover defender U.K. brochure. They have the fair lead at the front of the bumper.
I think that for a vehicle that is “Built on purpose “ as the Grenadier is. Then this winch will be used for work as well as self recovery and often in extreme conditions as the utility models may get used by emergency services, utility companies, forestry contractors etc. The Red View attachment 7797582winch although good and built on purpose needs to be mounted so it can be used on purpose in my view.

I had to reread your post because on first glance I though you said the new Defender was “built with purpose “ and I started to laugh. I don’t think I’ve ever been so disappointed by a new vehicle I was looking forward to. I don’t want to hijack the thread but jeeze. What a let down.

Tinki · Dec 10, 2022

To be honest i am not an expert but seeing as so many other vehicles have metal bumpers ( not bullvars) see older generation defenders , g class . Swapping the bumper of the grenadier if its is compatible and simply declaring it might be an option . What my fear is is that the front mount for the which will be different between the two versions . In the pictures i just cannot see how it can be the same with a differnt bumper ( unless the uk bumper is double the length ) .
As for the defender i agree very disappointing. But i guess that is why we are all here

DCPU · Dec 12, 2022

Tinki said:
Beyond aesthetics the way the fairlead is buried in the bumper i am afraid it will limit the angle you can winch ( i know you are not supposed to winch at that steep of an angle but there are times where you can take educated risks) .

If you're working off nominal fleet angles of a few degrees, then there seems more than enough "tolerance" to exceed these before the limit of the edges of the bumper are reached.

Too many trucks · Dec 12, 2022

Still undecided whether to add a winch to my order, already spec'd the aux wiring just in case. I think on balance having the winch is better than not but I agree with comments that the EU spec Bruce Forsyth Chinny 'chin 'chin plastic bumper does appear to be inferior to the Aus steel jobbie when it come to Man points. I'm looking forward to seeing one in the flesh to decide further.

Logsplitter · Dec 12, 2022

DCPU said:
If you're working off nominal fleet angles of a few degrees, then there seems more than enough "tolerance" to exceed these before the limit of the edges of the bumper are reached.
View attachment 7797653

Agreed! In most situations it will be fine. Only time will tell. The proof will be when the winch starts getting used in anger for self rescue in extreme conditions or by utility and rescue organisation.

DaveB · Dec 12, 2022

Too many trucks said:
Still undecided whether to add a winch to my order, already spec'd the aux wiring just in case. I think on balance having the winch is better than not but I agree with comments that the EU spec Bruce Forsyth Chinny 'chin 'chin plastic bumper does appear to be inferior to the Aus steel jobbie when it come to Man points. I'm looking forward to seeing one in the flesh to decide further.

I added the front tow hitch so I get the wiring and decide if I want a winch later

grenadierboy · Dec 12, 2022

DaveB said:
I added the front tow hitch so I get the wiring and decide if I want a winch later

If you add the current integrated front Red winch at a later stage (purchase from the agent or direct from Red?) would you upgrade the front springs?

DaveB · Dec 12, 2022

grenadierboy said:
If you add the current integrated front Red winch at a later stage (purchase from the agent or direct from Red?) would you upgrade the front springs?

No
25kg makes very little difference.
putting me in the passenger seat or filling the fuel tank would have more impact.

MrMike · Dec 12, 2022

DCPU said:
If you're working off nominal fleet angles of a few degrees, then there seems more than enough "tolerance" to exceed these before the limit of the edges of the bumper are reached.
View attachment 7797653

Thats not a particularly good position for the fairlead, with either a left or right pull there is a possibility of it coming into contact with the bumper

emax · Dec 12, 2022

DCPU said:
If you're working off nominal fleet angles of a few degrees, then there seems more than enough "tolerance" to exceed these before the limit of the edges of the bumper are reached.

(Approximated) worst case looks a bit different.

DCPU · Dec 12, 2022

emax said:
(Approximated) worst case looks a bit different.
View attachment 7797662

But still huge fleet angles...I'm wondering if anyone worrying about this has actually tried to winch at these angles and seen one of two things happen ~ multiple wraps at one end of the drum jams rope against link bars or rope bites down between wraps and becomes a tangled mess.

There's ways to change the fleet angle by using a snatch block or even slewing the front of the vehicle that your winch and winch rope will thank you for.

There are a few things that Ineos have had to compromise on with regard to the winch but fleet angles really isn't one of them IMHO.

Logsplitter · Dec 12, 2022

DCPU said:
But still huge fleet angles...I'm wondering if anyone worrying about this has actually tried to winch at these angles and seen one of two things happen ~ multiple wraps at one end of the drum jams rope against link bars or rope bites down between wraps and becomes a tangled mess.

There's ways to change the fleet angle by using a snatch block or even slewing the front of the vehicle that your winch and winch rope will thank you for.

There are a few things that Ineos have had to compromise on with regard to the winch but fleet angles really isn't one of them IMHO.

Understood. I understand they have to compromise to meet pedestrian safety standards. I’m not building power lines any more as per my previous posts. So don’t think it will bother me too much. But believe me the things we have done with winches in Landrovers, Reynold Boughton RB44’s and Unimogs is unbelievable when building power lines with most extreme angles and abuse of vehicles and winches imaginable, just to get the job done. 20 years since I left the industry, so imagine health and safety wouldn’t let us do those things anyway

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