Wrangler better?

[HereinDaRockies]

Have been driving a rental rubicon on factory ko2 (at 43psi) over the past week in the Mojave desert.

The jeep(with 2k on the odo) feels more solid than my grenadier on wash board roads. It’s squeak and rattle free( unlike the grenadier which makes a horrible metallic rattle on the driver side). HVAC works without any fuss. All the off road bits work great - activated 4L, lockers and sway disconnect on various segments of a trail. Took the front row hard top panels out for a period of time. Suspension feels more comfortable going over potholes and washboards.

The jeep has the 2.0 turbo. Sounds like sht, but has decent power.
Steering has no squeal sound and turning radius is excellent.

Yeah I have been told it has poor build quality. However so far on this trip it has been highly impressive… makes me wonder did I get the wrong vehicle?

It’s also about $25k cheaper(aggressive discounts from Jeep) than the grenadier

Any former wrangler owners say otherwise?

 

[Shroomy]

Have been driving a rental rubicon on factory ko2 (at 43psi) over the past week in the Mojave desert.

The jeep(with 2k on the odo) feels more solid than my grenadier on wash board roads. It’s squeak and rattle free( unlike the grenadier which makes a horrible metallic rattle on the driver side). HVAC works without any fuss. All the off road bits work great - activated 4L, lockers and sway disconnect on various segments of a trail. Took the front row hard top panels out for a period of time. Suspension feels more comfortable going over potholes and washboards.

The jeep has the 2.0 turbo. Sounds like sht, but has decent power.

Yeah I have been told it has poor build quality. However so far on this trip it has been highly impressive… makes me wonder did I get the wrong vehicle?

It’s also about $25k cheaper than the grenadier

View attachment 7890435

They are both great offroad that's why I decided to get both. Jeep is more fun to drive if you have the 392 V8 but has way more wind noise so I only take is on short distance trips. The Grenadier is way more comfortable for Overlanding on the longer trips and can go anywhere the Jeep can.

.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

On the day it was windy, interior was very loud. On the days with no wind, highway cruising was fine. The jeep also didn’t exhibit the annoying cyclical driveline drone / resonance at around 75-80mph..

Perhaps I will step back in the grenadier and appreciate all it’s superlatives.. (hoping that is the case) otherwise, I should kick my self for not cross shopping them.

 

[mcdoogs]

I mean if the less expensive vehicle meets your needs and expectations, then it's hard to argue that one shouldn't go that way.

There are quite a few differences between the cars though. Payload and towing is significantly higher in the Grenadier making it generally a better 'overlander' build, a Rubicon is a better pure offroader with a higher ceiling for extreme 4x4 terrain, and a much richer (and significantly less expensive) aftermarket . And that's just for starters.

 

[Commodore]

It's not as big a price difference as one might think. Lot's of Rubicons sticker in the low 70k range. That's not to say that Stalantis isn't discounting the crap out of them to get them off the lot.

If you think that our Grenadiers have issues then go hang out on the Jeep forums....

 

[mcdoogs]

It's not as big a price difference as one might think. Lot's of Rubicons sticker in the low 70k range. That's not to say that Stalantis isn't discounting the crap out of them to get them off the lot.

If you think that our Grenadiers have issues then go hang out on the Jeep forums....

I just built a Rubicon on the Jeep site with a similar feature set to the base Grenadier for ~55k (60k with the 'extreme 35" tire package") and they are offering 10% off MSRP right now. I mean, yeah you CAN add a bunch of dumb stuff to a Jeep to jack the price up, but the base price for a 2025 4-door is ~52k which is $23k less than the base Grenadier that lacks cross axle lockers.

We don't have enough data yet to really speak intelligently about long term reliability of the grenadier imo. I have no personal interest in anything made by a Stellantis company (besides an alpha romeo 4c maybe), but it's hard to make an argument against a Jeep Rubicon for certain use cases.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

I am just saying.. a back-to-back comparison of a grenadier with 2k miles against a rubicon with 2k miles.. I walked away highly impressed! The jeep performed better than my grenadier across many facets.

I have never driven a jl rubicon until this trip.

Looking forward to returning home and get back into my grenadier to see if my feelings are reinforced

 

[LabRat]

Hard to argue with the cost difference on both the original purchase and cheaper aftermarket stuff, particularly with the heavy discounting on the Jeeps right now. However, for me, it's the intangible value. That thing whenever I park, I look back and admire the IG and not just another Jeep running around. Kinda why I ride an Indian rather than just another Harley. Some things you just can't put a value on.

 

[CRH]

The Wrangler seemed quite small inside in comparison and in UK we can only get the 2.0 petrol now where as the my Grenadier is 3.0 diesel and I will be doing 15-20,000 miles per year on mainly UK motorway. And, please don't take this the wrong way, but American vehicles in the UK do give a certain image. Admittedly I was tempted by the V8 Mustang when it was eventually available in RHD, even if it was to just stick 2 fingers up to the anti fosil fuel brigade.

 

[LabRat]

The Wrangler seemed quite small inside in comparison and in UK we can only get the 2.0 petrol now where as the my Grenadier is 3.0 diesel and I will be doing 15-20,000 miles per year on mainly UK motorway. And, please don't take this the wrong way, but American vehicles in the UK do give a certain image. Admittedly I was tempted by the V8 Mustang when it was eventually available in RHD, even if it was to just stick 2 fingers up to the anti fosil fuel brigade.

Jeeps here in the US also give a certain image LOL

 

[mcdoogs]

The Wrangler seemed quite small inside in comparison and in UK we can only get the 2.0 petrol now where as the my Grenadier is 3.0 diesel and I will be doing 15-20,000 miles per year on mainly UK motorway. And, please don't take this the wrong way, but American vehicles in the UK do give a certain image. Admittedly I was tempted by the V8 Mustang when it was eventually available in RHD, even if it was to just stick 2 fingers up to the anti fosil fuel brigade.

Oh absolutely, if you are hauling a good amount of stuff and/or people regularly the Wrangler is just going to be worse at that. Plus subjectively the design is worse .

As a side note, this discussion kinda highlights why I was so disappointed that the Grenadier doesnt come with a lot of modern standard features that mid-trim 4x4s Wranglers and Broncos comes with (stuff like blind spot monitoring, working hvac, tpms that actually makes sense, auto high beams, better backup cameras, etc). Not cutting edge stuff at all, nothing that bricks the car if it breaks, just nice-to-have features that people expect. Instead we are in a situation where you can truly cross shop these downmarket cars with the Grenadier on a feature list basis and the luxury priced car doesn't come out ahead.

Back in 2020/2021 I ordered a Bronco and a Defender, and they both actually came in only a month apart. A few months later my wife and I took them to Moab (from New England) for 6 weeks. So we truly compared them, and the Bronco was good but the Defender just had more features and was massively better on road and just as capable offroad which to me justified the price delta (this was a P300 S with 18" steelies, air suspension, ACC, rear locker, towing pack, other goodies so it was ~$70k compared to the ~$41k Bronco). If I was to do the same comparison now with my Grenadier, and leave aside all subjective criteria, I don't think I could say my ~$82k Grenadier beats a ~$50k Bronco well enough on objective criteria like on/offroad performance and feature set list to justify the cost delta (including aftermarket costs). Again, this is leaving aside all subjective criteria like design (which the Grenadier handily wins) or stuff that we really don't know enough about like reliability/longevity. All these thoughts stem from the context of trying to forecast current and future sales performance in the US

 

[alvan]

A simple long-term reasoning. We are not talking about two sports cars in which the greatest possible lightness is required, using sophisticated materials. We are talking about heavy-duty vehicles that must withstand very significant stresses for decades. Rubicon weighs 1860 kg, Grenadier 2730 kg and I do not think the Rubicon is built of composite materials or titanium. I deduce that the difference in weight is due to a greater sizing of the parts which can only determine greater robustness in the long term, and greater cost. Do not forget that, with the exclusion of the use of special materials as in sports vehicles, weight means cost. Furthermore, if it is true that if in certain situations of 'sporty' off-road, the lower weight can be an advantage, in real-life off-road situations the situation is reversed.

 

[255/85]

We thought the Jeep was cramped and had a silly interior design aesthetic. That's what you see when you're driving it - not the outside. I kept hitting my head on the damn roll bars. It felt terribly cheap, too. The rear seats were out of a go-kart or something, The cost difference was hard to let go of but, every time we sat in a IG we just felt much more relaxed. If the Grenadier holds up It'll be money well spent on the years of comfort we'll get back.

 

[CRH]

A simple long-term reasoning. We are not talking about two sports cars in which the greatest possible lightness is required, using sophisticated materials. We are talking about heavy-duty vehicles that must withstand very significant stresses for decades. Rubicon weighs 1860 kg, Grenadier 2730 kg and I do not think the Rubicon is built of composite materials or titanium. I deduce that the difference in weight is due to a greater sizing of the parts which can only determine greater robustness in the long term, and greater cost. Do not forget that, with the exclusion of the use of special materials as in sports vehicles, weight means cost. Furthermore, if it is true that if in certain situations of 'sporty' off-road, the lower weight can be an advantage, in real-life off-road situations the situation is reversed.

Strength and longevity were my reasons for buying. My other option was the Landcruiser/Prado, which would have been perfect for my use too. Any car with 4 wheel drive and a little more ground clearance than normal would have probably done the job better. More economical, cheaper, nicer materials inside but I don't care about any of that. Our government seems hell bent on stopping us buying fuel powered vehicles in the very near future and I wanted to ensure whatever i bought would see me to my grave. I have no plans to buy myself another vehicle unless they make it impossible to use.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Wait wait wait - let me get this straight. You guys didn’t do a comprehensive pro/con analysis using empirical evidence on a non-existent automobile in the 30 seconds between when they opened registration for pre-production reservations and hitting the “submit” button? I am shocked. Dismayed. Flabbergasted. Scandalized. I think most of us can admit that there’s a lot of smoothing that can be done to make it even better and live up to its price tag - and most of us have probably named ours and would sleep out in the garage if it wouldn’t mean our spouses divorcing us. Maybe some are even still contemplating that trade-off ;o)

 

[Jeremy996]

A Jeep Rubicon in the UK is £64k+, or more than I paid for my Grenadier. They may be cheap in the USA, but they are far from cheap here.

 

[Tjeska]

I love Jeep, really!
Had 3 CJ7's and drove many JKU's en JL Rubicons, they have there appeal.

But for the price I found them here in Belgium pretty expensive, especially if you want a complete package (rubicon, winch, etc etc).

Therefore I chose a Grenadier, the interior alone is such a step up, let alone the diesel engine.
Can't complain about clunks while driving, mine doesn't seem to have those extras

I have the feeling the Ineos dealers in the USA have to adapt to the little annoyances that needs to be solved in the early delivered vehicles before delivery.

 

[G-Man]

I bought a new Wrangler JL Rubicon a few years back and it was flimsy in comparison, acres of scratchy plastic inside and out plus it had next level 'steering wander' which made it a pig to drive any long distances. Tried to like it but we just didn't gel so I traded it in for a LR Discovery which turned out to have the infamous windscreen water leak and associated electrical gremlins

The Gren has its own bugbears but it's a substantial bit of kit. It feels less 'lifestyle' and far more utilitarian which I think is its main appeal. It's not for everyone though: If a new owner is stepping out of a modern vehicle then some expectations may not be met.

 

[DoubleDoom]

I have only had a brief time in a Rubicon. My impression was it was built like a tin can. It was noisy, and it was cramped, especially the rear. On the road, it had awful manners. Far worse than the Grenadier. Although I don't suffer the steering wandering that so many American vehicles seem to have.

My primary requirements are 3.5T muck trailer towing over sloppy clay, filling the rear with horse feeds, hay etc and then taking the horse trailer and associated kit and dogs etc. We also are in an area with lots of very uneven rural lanes where cambers are quite extreme and switch from side to side constantly, along with lots of potholes. Indeed, in the UK, Ineos have been targeting equestrian use in their marketing, social media and sponsoring of events.

My take is that the Rubicon was not at all suitable for our needs. I don't doubt what the Rubicon can do offroading very well, especially in rocky areas, but I see the Grenadier and Rubicon excelling in different areas.
I have no clunks or creaks in mine. Indeed, that was one of the buying points for me. It isn't perfect and has quirks, but I really couldn't stand the Rubicon.

 

[landmannnn]

The big plus for the jeep is the almost infinite aftermarket... Be it 40" wheels, a diamante studded steering wheel or a huge V10, somebody somewhere will have developed a kit.