Winch

[bemax]

Does anybody know why spill winches aren’t used anymore for 4x4s?

 

[Steve.B]

10.2 metres is quite a long distance to winch, I have used winch extensions and snatch straps to increase distance to reach trees etc, but I prefer using snatch straps as having a bit of elasticity seems to considerably soften the shock loads on the winch, winch rope and vehicle as winching is usually not straight forward, you bounce all over the place, gain and loose traction, sometimes slide backwards while climbing hills etc.

 

[DCPU]

I’m trying to wrap my head around the fact that there is only 10.5m of rope with a single wrap on the drum remaining.

That is insanely short. Almost unusable without an extension.

Yes ~ it's shocking that Ineos have not been really clear on this.

On the plus side, the duty cycle will never be exceeded and the battery won't suffer.

 

[DCPU]

Does anybody know why spill winches aren’t used anymore for 4x4s?

I don't know what one of them is?

 

[DCPU]

10.2 metres is quite a long distance to winch

Two vehicle lengths?

, I have used winch extensions and snatch straps to increase distance to reach trees etc, but I prefer using snatch straps as having a bit of elasticity seems to considerably soften the shock loads on the winch, winch rope and vehicle as winching is usually not straight forward, you bounce all over the place, gain and loose traction, sometimes slide backwards while climbing hills etc.

Snatch straps in a winch recovery.

 

[bigleonski]

10.2 metres is quite a long distance to winch, I have used winch extensions and snatch straps to increase distance to reach trees etc, but I prefer using snatch straps as having a bit of elasticity seems to considerably soften the shock loads on the winch, winch rope and vehicle as winching is usually not straight forward, you bounce all over the place, gain and loose traction, sometimes slide backwards while climbing hills etc.

I've never used a snatch strap in a winch recovery. I've always believed (mainly from discussions a long long time ago) that they were a big no-no with winches.

 

[Steve.B]

Two vehicle lengths?


Snatch straps in a winch recovery.

Yes as I said they cushion the shock load in my experience, so less likely to cause damage or have breakages, I knew it was going to be controversial to the purists.

 

[Steve.B]

I've never used a snatch strap in a winch recovery. I've always believed (mainly from discussions a long long time ago) that they were a big no-no with winches.

I have been told the same in the past, with plasma rope I can't see an issue, it is not as if the winch is going to go flying through the air, and I would not use it with steel cable when that rule was made as that would be a problem.

 

[bigleonski]

I have been told the same in the past, with plasma rope I can't see an issue, it is not as if the winch is going to go flying through the air, and I would not use it with steel cable when that rule was made as that would be a problem.

Would there be any issue with the potential shock stress placed on the winch itself if there was sudden forward movement of the other vehicle exacerbated by being "snatched". ??

 

[DCPU]

Yes as I said they cushion the shock load in my experience, so less likely to cause damage or have breakages, I knew it was going to be controversial to the purists.

I think you should be questioning why you are having shock loads in a winching situation. Solve the cause, not the symptoms.

Not a purist *, just trying to be mechanically sympathetic.

* A purist would tell you to get a Tirfor.

 

[DCPU]

Would there be any issue with the potential shock stress placed on the winch itself if there was sudden forward movement of the other vehicle exacerbated by being "snatched". ??

Quite.

Look at the Red Winches website and see their advice on the matter.

 

[Ingemar]

I have already bought a 20m extension and it and some soft shackles and a tree protector will be going in my lockable real wheel stowage compartment

love that compartment!! it is really sealed off well and very handy.

 

[AnD3rew]

I've never used a snatch strap in a winch recovery. I've always believed (mainly from discussions a long long time ago) that they were a big no-no with winches.

I wouldn’t use one except in an emergency if I didn’t have an option.

10.2 metres is quite a long distance to winch.

Yes, my experience has been that 9 times out of 10 you get stuck in one fairly short section that you just need to get through. The extra length will usually only be needed to reach an anchor point so an extension is fine for that. There may be the occasional time with a long uphill section that maybe a problem with a shorter rope, but you also need to remember that the rated capacity of the winch is only for the first wrap on the drum, so every additional one the capacity drops significantly. If you had a long run you would have to stop chock and reset, but I can live with that risk

 

[AnD3rew]

love that compartment!! it is really sealed off well and very handy.

Nice to hear that holds in reality

 

[Miki]

11m of rope is pretty useless on a winch, I have 35m on my LR and occasionally need to run additional straps especially when using pulleys for mechanical advantage. I guess it's related to what you are doing with a winch ...
Just pulling yourself forwards (assuming there is a handy anchor) 11m is still (IMO) cutting it fine.

Never use a snatch rope on a winch, ever, always hold the load and draw it in (or let it out) under control, ie under tension. Winches are absolutely not designed to accept shock loads or sudden changes/increases of wieght.
Bouncing all over the place, gaining and loosing traction, sometimes sliding backwards while climbing hills etc. sounds like things are totaly out of controll. The load should NEVER be bouncing around, ever.
Winch ropes are deliberately designed to be low-stretch.
Winching is all about control.
Changes of tension will damage a planetary gearbox in short order, using a snatch rope (or kinetic recovery rope) adds significant force to both the load and the anchor.

 

[Steve.B]

11m of rope is pretty useless on a winch, I have 35m on my LR and occasionally need to run additional straps especially when using pulleys for mechanical advantage. I guess it's related to what you are doing with a winch ...
Just pulling yourself forwards (assuming there is a handy anchor) 11m is still (IMO) cutting it fine.

Never use a snatch rope on a winch, ever, always hold the load and draw it in (or let it out) under control, ie under tension. Winches are absolutely not designed to accept shock loads or sudden changes/increases of wieght.
Bouncing all over the place, gaining and loosing traction, sometimes sliding backwards while climbing hills etc. sounds like things are totaly out of controll. The load should NEVER be bouncing around, ever.
Winch ropes are deliberately designed to be low-stretch.
Winching is all about control.
Changes of tension will damage a planetary gearbox in short order, using a snatch rope (or kinetic recovery rope) adds significant force to both the load and the anchor.

Yes I agree in an ideal world you never want shock loads, but on a couple of occasions I have gone in to hilly places in perfect dry conditions, had a downpour and have had a fair bit of difficulty exiting.

 

[Steve.B]

Quite.

Look at the Red Winches website and see their advice on the matter.

Would only use it to attach to a tree as a winch rope extension, and only with soft shackles, no steel eye, and only on the plasma winch rope, and absolutely no factor 55 or the like, and no other vehicle involved, only for self recovery.

 

[Miki]

I think, what you are doing @Steve.B is you are also 'driving/powering' out of the situation rather than just letting the winch do the work..
Engine running, in neutral, let the winch pull you up.
If you are being pulled by a winch (yours or a n other) dont try 'help' by driving out.

 

[ADVAW8S]

I think, what you are doing @Steve.B is you are also 'driving/powering' out of the situation rather than just letting the winch do the work..
Engine running, in neutral, let the winch pull you up.
If you are being pulled by a winch (yours or a n other) dont try 'help' by driving out.

If you haven't check out the Red Wimch YouTube videos. Most them are competition videos and you will see how Red Winch would like you to use their winches.

 

[Steve.B]

I think, what you are doing @Steve.B is you are also 'driving/powering' out of the situation rather than just letting the winch do the work..
Engine running, in neutral, let the winch pull you up.
If you are being pulled by a winch (yours or a n other) dont try 'help' by driving out.

Hi Miki
The Warn XD9000 on the front of my Discovery 2 needed help in the case I am talking about, it was in good working order but the hill in the forrest track was relatively steep with very little traction, and no alternative route.