Who is experiencing software or electrical gremlins?

[Michael H.]

All over the world after dark tonight all grenadier owners will be out of the house checking their courtesy light switches, those that aren't will not be forum readers.

Some of us know the answer, but don’t want to spoil the surprise of finding out.

 

[John Vardy]

Hands Free Phone Mic - quality / performance / position, is unacceptable.
I believe many more owners have this problem than they actually realise. - (Please stick with this to the bottom of this post)
I use my phone on hands free in my Grenadier very frequently and this issue is seriously spoiling my enjoyment of the vehicle.
I connect my iPhone hands free via apple CarPlay and I find my self semi shouting at the overhead panel to make my self heard.
In my case I can hear who I am talking too perfectly clearly through the car system speakers, but the recipient struggles to hear me most of the time.
I received my vehicle in October 2023 in the UK and this was a problem from day one. People who I were talking to initially didn't tell me how bad the reception was for them it was, but the novelty soon wore off.
I reported to the dealer many times but Ineos did not give them any fixes or any true acknowledgement that it is a know problem. I have spoken to the Ineos Help Line several times direct on the problem and all they have ever done is refer me back to the dealer, whose hands are tied with Ineos.
After checking with as may people I know well enough on how bad this is whist on the phone with them, it totally confirmed my theory - try it yourself !....remember it fools you by you hearing the person you are talking to perfectly well.
What I have found -

• Phone Microphone is behind the perforations in the overhead panel - see picture 1
• The microphone picks up an electronic interference with the engine off and ignition on only.
• Microphone position under the panel exposes it to a void up to the roof steel panel and direct contact to any noise generated in that area - picture 2 & 3
• With the engine running various sound is picked by the microphone
  • the engine and powertrain via the body work construction and noise increases with speed.
    • people can hear the turbo spooling up from low revs, the same noise you can hear with the drivers window is down on right hand drive cars, from the engine air intake in the right hand wing (fender)
  • wind noise from the safari window next to the overhead panel, that increase with vehicle speed.

I have suggested to the dealer that -

• a better positioned and quality microphone with noise canceling capability is required
• and or, sound insulation material above the overhead panel and microphone, up to the body work and the side of the safari window.

All I am hoping to do by posting this is to get the problem sorted out as it spoils a great vehicle.

 

[rovie]

I find it very odd. I also noticed on the roof mounted button to select interior lights with door opening, the indicator light remains ON all the time, even when locked.

The indicator light also goes off after a certain time. Incidentally, the light on the underside of the doors also goes off if I leave the doors open. I haven't measured the time. But I don't think it's less then 10 minutes. I know this behaviour from my Disco 4. @Tom109 but if it's important to you, I can go to the vehicle and measure the exact time. Just let me know.

 

[Skydance]

My car isn’t due it’s first year service until May. The service indicator reminder blinks on the infotainment screen counting down the days. It’s now past its service according to the computer and now an Orange exclamation warning light appears on the warning dashboard. Does anyone know if this is normal?

Today, my screen went totally besserk and scrolled through all the errors, PDC error, power steering error. I really don’t know why modern cars have these shit software issues. My Lotus Emira was exactly the same. You lock the car, and the fan and infotainment screen is still on???? No wonder they have battery issues.

Edited. All warning lights have been turned off and back to normal. All working fine the following day . My battery says 87% today. Yesterday after the software had a fit, it said 0% battery charge.

To minimise the battery discharge, I changed the approach to car to 20 seconds and leaving (locking) car to off. This may or may not help but worth trying.

 

[Skymark]

I read this long post with a sense of irony given how ferociously the 2020 Defender is trashed for having an overreliance on electrics for an offroad vehicle. What vehicle if any vehicle can channel the spirit of the old Defender in the age of modern engines & regulations?

 

[Skydance]

I find it very odd. I also noticed on the roof mounted button to select interior lights with door opening, the indicator light remains ON all the time, even when

I find it very odd. I also noticed on the roof mounted button to select interior lights with door opening, the indicator light remains ON all the time, even when locked.

Mine too. I noticed it turns off after 10 mins.

 

[rovie]

The indicator light also goes off after a certain time. Incidentally, the light on the underside of the doors also goes off if I leave the doors open. I haven't measured the time. But I don't think it's less then 10 minutes. I know this behaviour from my Disco 4. @Tom109 but if it's important to you, I can go to the vehicle and measure the exact time. Just let me know.

@Tom109
That has kept me busy now. I locked the vehicle and watched the lights. The monitor and the green LED on the SOS button switch off automatically after 2 minutes.
The orange LED on the button for automatic operation of the interior lighting switches off automatically after 45 minutes. For whatever reason. Here, 2 minutes would also be perfectly sufficient.

 

[AWo]

I really don’t know why modern cars have these shit software issues.

One of the reason is, that the number of ECUs which needs to communicate with each other has increased over time (up to 640 in a modern car) and many different manufacturers are involved.

Every manufacturer offers something, a window control, climate control, pressure sensors, engine sensors and actuators, etc, you name it...all with different functions and interfaces. All with their own ideas of how it should be. Some offer more ECUs as a family which might work together smoother if the car manufacturer choises to stay in a family of ECUs with less different suppliers, but if not, even more integration is necessary. All these ECU create dependencies.

The car manufacturer (or its development partners) has to bring all of that together and all these devices must interact. Just think about a simple window.

Decades ago it was luxuary to have a simple power switch to open and close the car window...which was not so simple. The window has to sense if it is blocked and stop then to prevent injury.

Today the windows must communicate. Was the door lock activated? Do I need to close, as well? Is there still something open? They have an ECU and have mirror, door and light functions included.

Just google for the L99DZ200G window control module and see what opening and closing a window means today.

And we've touched only the windows, yet.

Tesla comes from a different approach. As they have no history of an increasing number of ECUs over decades which all needs integration, they were able to start completely integrated.

AWo

 

[grnamin]

Android Auto volume was very low, even at highest setting. Could barely hear Maps directions at highway speeds. After software update to version 2070, it's nice and loud now.

 

[Obxgrenadier]

I’ve got it too. Most prevelent on small bumps and loud. Suspect the heat shield is the cause. The dealer hasn’t really tried to find the cause.

 

[matt34]

Mine is getting worse. Started with crazy fluctuating sounds with the turn indicators. Then the lane departure turned into a shrill ear piercing noise. (When it decided it wants to work randomly) Now the Speed Assist Unavailable warning is on 80 percent of the time. Accident Evasion Red Fail indicator occasionally comes on. And just last night the radio refuses to turn off. Even after turning the key off and locking the truck. Taking it to the dealer today. Its almost like a computer or module has failed.

Hi Jackattack13:

I am curious. Was the dealer able to fix this issue on your truck? My dealer has been worthless on fixing or even. diagnosing the problem. Looking for any advice that anyone might have. Thank you

 

[Jackattack13]

Hi Jackattack13:

I am curious. Was the dealer able to fix this issue on your truck? My dealer has been worthless on fixing or even. diagnosing the problem. Looking for any advice that anyone might have. Thank you

Nope, no fix yet. They are replacing the same module again saying that is the only thing that can cause the issue. That would mean I got 2 bad modules in a row. 1 from the factory and 1 replacement. I am being hopeful but also realistic that this probably won't be the fix. If this doesn't fix it, it's probably wiring and at that point, who knows how long for them to diagnose it or fix.

I drop it off with them again on Monday. We will see what happens.

 

[MTNDOG]

Nope, no fix yet. They are replacing the same module again saying that is the only thing that can cause the issue. That would mean I got 2 bad modules in a row. 1 from the factory and 1 replacement. I am being hopeful but also realistic that this probably won't be the fix. If this doesn't fix it, it's probably wiring and at that point, who knows how long for them to diagnose it or fix.

I drop it off with them again on Monday. We will see what happens.

We had a Volvo Station wagon, fuel pump issues, it took 4 brand new fuel pumps to finally find one that worked. So here's to hoping the new module will fix your issue.

 

[NoMoTaco]

Thanks Tazzieman, that is interesting. For me the message popped up during driving on the highway. And I was definitely not driving in offroad or wading mode. After a short break when car was switched off and on again, the message disappeared, just to pop up again have an hour later during driving. Strange thing.

@jkloy did the dealer/agent find a cause for this error??

I am having the same issue, it popped up while driving the other day, when I got home I cycled engine off and on but it remained. Next day it was gone then reappeared ten minutes into my drive..

 

[NoMoTaco]

Intermittent set of warnings random, uphill assist, downhill assist, ESC unavailable, reduced braking performance & cruise control doesn't operate. '

@m18rus was there any identified cause for this issue? I am experiencing the same thing

 

[jkloy]

@jkloy did the dealer/agent find a cause for this error??

I am having the same issue, it popped up while driving the other day, when I got home I cycled engine off and on but it remained. Next day it was gone then reappeared ten minutes into my drive..

I did not ask the dealer. To be honest, after this error did not happen since a few months, I simply forgot about mentioning it when I had my first service at the dealer lately. Knock on wood.

 

[NoMoTaco]

THIS IS A POSITIVE POST

In the few above posts you can see me inquiring with others about their similar experience with a Telltale Alarm Trifecta that I was having. This was accompanied by a scroll of 6 warnings on the Central Display (One Red - Five Orange).

View attachment Telltale.JPG

This started showing up about a week ago, at first it would pop up about 10 minutes into my drive, but eventually it was on consistently at initial start up of the vehicle. "Coincidentally" this started around the same time my steering wheel itself was beginning to get out of alignment. (Subtle at first but then dramatically worse, as depicted below where Im tracking in a straight line)

View attachment tempImageSFS5wt.jpg


I checked below and it turns out the adjustment collar on the passenger side was loose and could be moved by hand, so I started to suspect that the steering wheel alignment was the cause for these alarm bells.


View attachment tempImageya2fKe.jpg

Now to be clear, I had an alignment done by my local shop 2700 miles ago and they owned this problem and immediately got me in for another alignment and proper torquing of the lock nuts at no cost, however the alarms persisted at start up afterwards and the next day. So I made an appointment with Curry Service Dept, and discussed this with them, they said if it persisted it was likely a wheel speed sensor (He said they have done two with these same sets of alarms for faulty wheel speed sensors)

Then, as suddenly as it showed up, these alarms were simply gone and not to be heard from again now for the past two days/100 miles.
My suspicion is that the computer and sensors had to "Learn" that things were back to normal before committing to saying so.

I know this is a long winded post about a simple problem and solution, but I thought it was important to share that this was something that seemed like a simple electrical gremlin at first but in fact was seemingly responding to something erroneous, AND it ultimately did what it was supposed to when the problem was rectified (albeit after many miles of drive time).

 

[terdrocket]

THIS IS A POSITIVE POST

In the few above posts you can see me inquiring with others about their similar experience with a Telltale Alarm Trifecta that I was having. This was accompanied by a scroll of 6 warnings on the Central Display (One Red - Five Orange).

View attachment 7857065
View attachment 7857059View attachment 7857060View attachment 7857061
View attachment 7857062View attachment 7857063View attachment 7857064

This started showing up about a week ago, at first it would pop up about 10 minutes into my drive, but eventually it was on consistently at initial start up of the vehicle. "Coincidentally" this started around the same time my steering wheel itself was beginning to get out of alignment. (Subtle at first but then dramatically worse, as depicted below where Im tracking in a straight line)

View attachment 7857070


I checked below and it turns out the adjustment collar on the passenger side was loose and could be moved by hand, so I started to suspect that the steering wheel alignment was the cause for these alarm bells.


View attachment 7857071

Now to be clear, I had an alignment done by my local shop 2700 miles ago and they owned this problem and immediately got me in for another alignment and proper torquing of the lock nuts at no cost, however the alarms persisted at start up afterwards and the next day. So I made an appointment with Curry Service Dept, and discussed this with them, they said if it persisted it was likely a wheel speed sensor (He said they have done two with these same sets of alarms for faulty wheel speed sensors)

Then, as suddenly as it showed up, these alarms were simply gone and not to be heard from again now for the past two days/100 miles.
My suspicion is that the computer and sensors had to "Learn" that things were back to normal before committing to saying so.

I know this is a long winded post about a simple problem and solution, but I thought it was important to share that this was something that seemed like a simple electrical gremlin at first but in fact was seemingly responding to something erroneous, AND it ultimately did what it was supposed to when the problem was rectified (albeit after many miles of drive time).

After my lift install, but before I got an alignment I had the same warnings. Once I had a proper alignment they have not returned.
Truck gets unhappy when something reads out of tolerance with the sensors.

 

[grnamin]

After my lift install, but before I got an alignment I had the same warnings. Once I had a proper alignment they have not returned.
Truck gets unhappy when something reads out of tolerance with the sensors.

Our Grenadiers have more sensors than the USS Enterprise.

 

[cdlucas]

I just took possession of my IG and am having this same exact problem, and I notice also my steering wheel is slightly offset to the left of center. So I understand correctly, if I get it aligned properly it should resolve the trifecta of warning lights and warning notices and inoperable cruise control?