Americas Who has more leverage now, the dealer or buyer?

[Idahorocks]

My reservation is about a month out from delivery and I'm wondering who has more leverage right now, the buyer or the dealer? It's a selfish question that might help me assess total value when (and if) I close on my Grenadier. I hear about reservations going unclaimed in the same breath that I hear all 2024 units are claimed. I hope demand is outpacing supply in the sense that is preserves value for me and the future of Ineos' automotive venture but I also don't think we should pay more than MSRP through pressure by my dealer causing me to walk-away. I don't want to take too much of a risk as an early adopter if there is no long term future in the product. At the same time I have to acknowledge the dealer is also taking on risk investing in this product. A quick look at dealer websites in the US is concerning showing plenty of available inventory in some markets, but it is unclear in others where dealers don't show available inventory. Has the wave crested? Or did Ineos fail to get the word out?

 

[Loc Nar]

I picked my Grenadier up yesterday from Regal Ineos, and they had about fifty+ pre-orders on the lot that they expected to close on by the end of next week. They also had about 15-20 stock vehicles available for sale. If you are a pre-order buyer, I do not think you can expect to gain anything by trying to talk them lower than your pre-order price, if that's what you were thinking. If you choose not to buy, they will just convert that to a sellable vehicle, and it will likely go for a higher price than on your pre-order. At this time, I would say that, fortunately, Ineos pressure on dealers to honor pre-order prices has held true, to our advantage.

 

[Idahorocks]

And that is truly my hope, a fair deal on paying the pre-order price. That is a win-win in my mind. The part that I feel a little exposure is the trade in where they might try to add a little (or a lot) to their side of the column depending on who has the leverage. Or use that to drive me away from my reservation to gain some uplift from an allocation bump in price. Again, I'm looking for fair for both parties for all parts of the equation. And if that part goes south then I'll find alternatives to unload that value. Just being anxious, I guess.

 

[grenexplorer]

If you truly want the upper hand, forego the trade and sell via private party. You’ll maximize the value.

 

[Idahorocks]

I hear you. It's the sales tax offset with the trade in that makes that a bit harder decision.

 

[anand]

but I also don't think we should pay more than MSRP through pressure by my dealer causing me to walk-away.

I don't believe anyone has paid over MSRP (except for the brilliant chap who paid $20k+ over sticker on BringATrailer, sorry if you read this at some point)

 

[Idahorocks]

Right, and then the next auction on BaT (if I recall correctly) went a few thousand below sticker, and after RNM on a previous Car and Bids auction. These examples and the apparent availability at some dealers just got me wondering about the true demand. It seems to me that it boils down to exposure of the brand. There were more than a few comments on those auctions where folks, auto enthusiasts it would seem, still haven't heard of the Grenadier. Which brought me to the question of where I might stand negotiating a trade in with the dealer. I may have no leverage and would need to sell my trade in private party to maximize value but it is also a hassle that I'd rather avoid. Or I may have leverage because they will want to see another unit on the road while still having some meat on the bone to mark-up the trade in.

 

[Loc Nar]

You now know the lay of the land. All you have to do now is play your cards.

 

[Jeffrey]

Leverage? I didn't know it was a game or a competition. Ineos and I agreed to a product and a price long ago. It was manufactured and the deal went down. No one was stronghanding the other. It was pleasant. Why are we talking about this?

 

[Jack123]

Leverage? I didn't know it was a game or a competition. Ineos and I agreed to a product and a price long ago. It was manufactured and the deal went down. No one was stronghanding the other. It was pleasant. Why are we talking about this?

Possibly installation costs? Some are charging $115 per hour, and some $600.

 

[NoMoTaco]

"Leverage"in the context of vehicle value is very individualized. But to touch on a few points of concern mentioned by OP....
-No stories of dealers charging over MSRP to reservation holders being reported
-Unclaimed units can appear concerning at first glance, however the very low risk/low barrier to entry (order placement) allowed many individuals to place an order who never had any real intention of taking delivery of their vehicles, and this strategy may have been intentional by IA to allow for dealer stock.
-Ineos didn't seem to aggressively market the Grenadier in North America as they have in the UK/Europe. I think word will get out more and popularity of the vehicle will be gained as there becomes more awareness
-And when it comes to risk as an early adopter, that is the balance WE ALL have to strike between Head vs. Heart

Good luck on your decision, should you decide to buy I am certain you won't regret it

 

[Mohs 9]

Leverage? I didn't know it was a game or a competition. Ineos and I agreed to a product and a price long ago. It was manufactured and the deal went down. No one was stronghanding the other. It was pleasant. Why are we talking about this?

The "product" is more than the car only. Along with it came a lot of promises (at least here in Germany) that are not fulfilled yet, e.g. the ability to service the car on your own, service manuals, service network within 50 km radius (Bosch stations). I am an early customer, VIN in the 700, and my car runs smooth, at least after the software update in October 2023.
So the truck is more or less what I ordered, in fact even more than I ordered (I got the utility belt for free). But the product is not what I expected.
Here in Germany there are quite a few Grenadiers for sale, from owners, not dealers. Any some are a bargain.

 

[[ Adam ]]

-Ineos didn't seem to aggressively market the Grenadier in North America as they have in the UK/Europe. I think word will get out more and popularity of the vehicle will be gained as there becomes more awareness

Interestingly, Ineos still managed to sell out 2024 manufacturing capacity without advertising. I imagine once the initial word of mouth demand dies down, we'll see more advertising?

 

[Catpaw4x4]

Interestingly, Ineos still managed to sell out 2024 manufacturing capacity without advertising. I imagine once the initial word of mouth demand dies down, we'll see more advertising?

Given the challenges that some current Dealers have, don't think it would be smart to put any more sales pressure on them with advertising. Also lack of servicing. Word of mouth / Sight of Eye seems to be fairly good advertising at present. See where we are later this year.

 

[Chadd7]

My reservation is about a month out from delivery and I'm wondering who has more leverage right now, the buyer or the dealer? It's a selfish question that might help me assess total value when (and if) I close on my Grenadier. I hear about reservations going unclaimed in the same breath that I hear all 2024 units are claimed. I hope demand is outpacing supply in the sense that is preserves value for me and the future of Ineos' automotive venture but I also don't think we should pay more than MSRP through pressure by my dealer causing me to walk-away. I don't want to take too much of a risk as an early adopter if there is no long term future in the product. At the same time I have to acknowledge the dealer is also taking on risk investing in this product. A quick look at dealer websites in the US is concerning showing plenty of available inventory in some markets, but it is unclear in others where dealers don't show available inventory. Has the wave crested? Or did Ineos fail to get the word out?

I think it really depends on the dealership location. The unclaimed orders are likely in areas where there is a large population, but lack of dealerships nearby. People don't want the hassle of driving 100+ miles for service and warranty work. I see you're in TX. Not sure if you have the issues we have here in the Northeast.

 

[Joefly78]

Anecdotally, I have cancelled my order. I decided to wait out some of the problems the early adopters are having. Within the last two months, I've run into two other people here in Atlanta that cancelled theirs as well for the same reasons. Now, we all eagerly signed up for the first deliveries and researched our initial order and subsequent cancelation decisions carefully based on information available (actual fitness for purpose, communications from Ineos, stories about problems going unfixed) and thought it worthwhile to sit on the sidelines for a year or two. We were, I think, educated buyers. The vision that we were so excited about just wasn't materializing.

My guess is that those that buy our vehicles on the lot won't have made nearly the effort in researching the car as we did. When they get a hold of it and think it's going to be like owning any other car, they might be disappointed, perhaps even upset. There are just too many idiosyncrasies and patience-testing shortcomings that even the enthusiasts on this site grapple with.

The casual buyer that thinks this thing is "cool" isn't going to have the appetite for a $910 key that fits poorly into a cheap feeling ignition. Or incessant clicking from ADAS. Or water in the footwell. My hunch is that you're going to see a lot of these on the market in the next year or two at significant discounts. I'd wait it out and go used if you want to optimize your purchase price. That's my plan anyway. Still want one bad.

 

[Norb-TX]

The buyer always has leverage. No one if forcing you to buy.

 

[Tom109]

Vehicle selection is a personal decision. It is easy to find fault and walk away and more difficult to wade through the haze and find the gold.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

Right, and then the next auction on BaT (if I recall correctly) went a few thousand below sticker, and after RNM on a previous Car and Bids auction. These examples and the apparent availability at some dealers just got me wondering about the true demand. It seems to me that it boils down to exposure of the brand. There were more than a few comments on those auctions where folks, auto enthusiasts it would seem, still haven't heard of the Grenadier. Which brought me to the question of where I might stand negotiating a trade in with the dealer. I may have no leverage and would need to sell my trade in private party to maximize value but it is also a hassle that I'd rather avoid. Or I may have leverage because they will want to see another unit on the road while still having some meat on the bone to mark-up the trade in.

Also there are people that ordered multiple units with an eye to Flip or just not take delivery due to whatever reason but still converted. So that’s in the mix with regards to stock availability.

 

[carlg007]

The buyer always has leverage. No one if forcing you to buy.

Unfortunately most buyers are to dumb to realize this!!!