Where is IA in five years? What do you think?

[anand]

That’s pretty much as I understand it. As for the quartermaster buyers, I thought you were in the vanguard there @anand.

I was 100% on board with selling my Grenadier for a Quartermaster as soon as they arrive... However, I naively forgot about Chicken Tax when I made those statements. I can't personally justify such a substantial surcharge. Now, if it came with close to 2 tonnes of payload, 6.5ft of bed space, and a diesel I may be swayed

 

[ADVAW8S]

I too said I would buy the Quartermaster and even said I would suck up the chicken tax but the price has goyen too expensive. I really wish they would sell it without the bed and avoid the tax. I even kick around the idea of not even getting my trialmaster since it will arrive around the same time the announcement of Quartmaster states side. Put order in and have it show up the end of 2024.

 

[anand]

I really wish they would sell it without the bed and avoid the tax.

No bed would equate to no chicken tax??? Hmmmm I'd seriously consider buying one without the bed and do an aftermarket tray

 

[BroncoBilly]

Perhaps in 5 years Land Rover will buy Ineos Automotive from Jim R, discontinue their New Defender, and change the Grenadier name to "Defender revival".

perhaps they will do that and try to sell both. Market their existing defender as "New Defender" and the grenadier as "Defender Classic". that would leave the "Defender Zero" name available for the electric grenadier.

 

[ADVAW8S]

No bed would equate to no chicken tax??? Hmmmm I'd seriously consider buying one without the bed and do an aftermarket tray

That would be my thought. I think they have closed all the loopholes and I believe no matter what you pay the chicken tax. The no bed move was a trick that GM and Ford used to bring in the Isuzu and tranist trucks in the 80s.

 

[Zimm]

Just put cheap seats in the bed, like a subaru brat.

 

[AWo]

Maybe that is one hint regarding what you as a customer are facing if things do not go right....

When I calculate the numbers of Ex-Ineos Automotive employeers in portals like LinkedIn I count that at least 33% of the total number of employees have changed already. Depends on when where there which numbers. There are 505 Ex-IA-employees on LinkedIn today....where the company has about 1.500 employees, but around 1.000 in the last years. But I assume not all are on Linkedin.

I read this in a employer rating portal (of course, there might be grief, but the statement fits to the numbers....):
"No internal Knowledge - so external Companies do all the work and also have a hard time understanding what needs to be done. Internally the employees change so fast and no "responsibilities" inside the company are established."

(Source: https://www.kununu.com/de/ineos-man...ernal_id=9391f03b-c974-4ab1-b413-6dcdf20fa91d" )

AWo

 

[[ Adam ]]

Just put cheap seats in the bed, like a subaru brat.

That's no longer a viable work around. The US govt got smart.

 

[Max]

Where is IA in five years? What do you think?​

At Magna in Austria building the New Fusiler

 

[Sillius Soddus]

(Source: https://www.kununu.com/de/ineos-man...ernal_id=9391f03b-c974-4ab1-b413-6dcdf20fa91d" )

AWo

This was certainly eye opening but not surprising. Looks like most employees generally like the place, but bemoan the fact that management is still stuck in the 20th century, and apparently not the late 20th. Another comment refrain seems to be that IT is atrociously outdated as well.

 

[AWo]

It is, for sure.

AWo

 

[AMD66]

Purchased by Mercedes Benz and they will get the factory back they kindly sold. It will then be a stable mate of the G and offer a very broad range of specialised vehicles for the brand.

 

[globalgregors]

Maybe that is one hint regarding what you as a customer are facing if things do not go right....

When I calculate the numbers of Ex-Ineos Automotive employeers in portals like LinkedIn I count that at least 33% of the total number of employees have changed already. Depends on when where there which numbers. There are 505 Ex-IA-employees on LinkedIn today....where the company has about 1.500 employees, but around 1.000 in the last years. But I assume not all are on Linkedin.

I read this in a employer rating portal (of course, there might be grief, but the statement fits to the numbers....):
"No internal Knowledge - so external Companies do all the work and also have a hard time understanding what needs to be done. Internally the employees change so fast and no "responsibilities" inside the company are established."

(Source: https://www.kununu.com/de/ineos-man...ernal_id=9391f03b-c974-4ab1-b413-6dcdf20fa91d" )

AWo

Any major capital project in petrochemicals will change the best part of it’s workforce twice before stabilising for sustained production. First wave to initiate the project; second wave to first production/deliveries; then third transition to steady state.

Could be that Ineos has brought this mentality to this new industry/venture.

Whatever I think it’s pretty clear that we’re all presently participants in a sprawling experiment, which in part is what delights me.

The industry needed a stir and giving volumes away to Chinese EV manufacturers has been a disastrous path to head down.

EV/Hybrid/ICE (city/intercity/rural) options in one brand, lifestyle concept and a coherent design language, don’t you reckon this is worth a punt? The major European manufacturers have been staggering from one mess to another for several years.

 

[AWo]

Any major capital project in petrochemicals will change the best part of it’s workforce twice before stabilising for sustained production. First wave to initiate the project; second wave to first production/deliveries; then third transition to steady state.

Aha, that's new to me....I need to tell that the Grandpas, Pa's and sons of one familiy working at Ineos in Germany, some of them right of the beginning in the 1950ties until their retirement, where whole generations found their work for decades. And a.f.a.i.k. the major projects in the largest Ineos site in Cologne, like the recent new build gas, steam and power plant was planned by internal staff and external engineering companies, than build by externals (quite normal) and than staffed and run by existing Ineos staff again....

Maybe that is due to the fact these people are very deep into "their" plant. Know every screw and pipe and valve and build up a lot of special knowledge and experience, so are not exchanges so easily.....and that these people live close to the plant (what the chemical company prefers and partly requires) and do not move around in Germany from plant to plant. They build their house, get friends, kids are send to school.....and settle down...

I saw that kind of working at BP, where all staff where external people hired for internal projects and when these were finished they were send away to the next project somewhere in the world. Maybe that is an US way to work, but not a European one.

AWo

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

Aha, that's new to me....I need to tell that the Grandpas, Pa's and sons of one familiy working at Ineos in Germany, some of them right of the beginning in the 1950ties until their retirement, where whole generations found their work for decades. And a.f.a.i.k. the major projects in the largest Ineos site in Cologne, like the recent new build gas, steam and power plant was planned by internal staff and external engineering companies, than build by externals (quite normal) and than staffed and run by existing Ineos staff again....

Maybe that is due to the fact these people are very deep into "their" plant. Know every screw and pipe and valve and build up a lot of special knowledge and experience, so are not exchanges so easily.....and that these people live close to the plant (what the chemical company prefers and partly requires) and do not move around in Germany from plant to plant. They build their house, get friends, kids are send to school.....and settle down...

I saw that kind of working at BP, where all staff where external people hired for internal projects and when these were finished they were send away to the next project somewhere in the world. Maybe that is an US way to work, but not a European one.

AWo

I’m not on the drafting board any longer, so certainly things have evolved. But even in the 1980s, the engineers at General Motors had about a 4/1 inside to private contractor outside ratio. We were primarily project managers as opposed to true engineers.
I very rarely did any big calculations. Things were always moving too fast for deep calculation on things. Outsiders did that under our direction.
I spent the remainder of my career in automation, specifically, because it is project, focused, with a beginning, middle and end. Focusing on end. We would man up, get the deliverable, and then shed bodies. It was an excellent way to have a diverse, sporting life, without worrying about having to be back at an office on Monday. Just let them know when you want your next assignment.
If a company is management, structure, is project, focused, people will be coming and going all the time.

I don’t know if contract engineering plays any role in the turnover you mentioned.

 

[AWo]

I collected a few numbers.

Regarding "The Guardian" Ineos Automotive received 471 Mio. Euro from the chemical business in 2020 and another 944 Mio in 2021. Business started officialy in 2017, where the pre-runs already started in 2016. That sumed up to a loss of 506 Mio Euro in 2022, which might be normal as no vehicles were on sale at that time. However, it is planned to give the money back...we'll see...maybe.

That shows how dependant IA was and maybe still is on the chemical parts of Ineos.

AWo