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What's this??

Shaky

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I notice that behind the MM one there appears to be an inky black and a metallic black one parked side by side.

If you zoom in really closely and stare at them for a good while, eventually you can see a colour difference.

That MM one does like the business though.
 

DenisM

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I notice that behind the MM one there appears to be an inky black and a metallic black one parked side by side.

If you zoom in really closely and stare at them for a good while, eventually you can see a colour difference.

That MM one does like the business though.
🤣🤣🤣 I saw the movie "men who stare at goats".... perhaps the stealth look of the Inky Black .......:cool:
 
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I'll toss my guess at it, I think it's for the winch. A 12k lbs. winch would draw ~300 amps @12v. If I remember reading correctly the factory winch was made by Red Winches, they make both 12v and 24v winches. Correct me if I'm wrong but the factory winch option adds the second battery. So I think they're using a 12v to 24v converter to run the winch. Double the voltage and you'd half the amperage so a 12k lbs. winch running 24v should be ~150 amps. I could be wrong.

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ECrider

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I'll toss my guess at it, I think it's for the winch. A 12k lbs. winch would draw ~300 amps @12v. If I remember reading correctly the factory winch was made by Red Winches, they make both 12v and 24v winches. Correct me if I'm wrong but the factory winch option adds the second battery. So I think they're using a 12v to 24v converter to run the winch. Double the voltage and you'd half the amperage so a 12k lbs. winch running 24v should be ~150 amps. I could be wrong.

View attachment 7807908
good post that and think you may be on to something.

p.s. I can hear my old maths teacher saying "you'll get marks for showing your workings out, even if your answer is wrong".
 

DCPU

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I'll toss my guess at it, I think it's for the winch. A 12k lbs. winch would draw ~300 amps @12v. If I remember reading correctly the factory winch was made by Red Winches, they make both 12v and 24v winches. Correct me if I'm wrong but the factory winch option adds the second battery. So I think they're using a 12v to 24v converter to run the winch. Double the voltage and you'd half the amperage so a 12k lbs. winch running 24v should be ~150 amps. I could be wrong.

Unfortunatly, the factory winch option does not add the second battery.
 
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Unfortunatly, the factory winch option does not add the second battery.
That was my best guess, looks like I'm wrong. I'm curious what it is for though. It's kind of a weird place to be with the rest of the main power circuits under the seat. The electrical circuit manuals will be out sooner or later.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

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I'm pretty sure this is a breaker.

I have a very similar one installed on my truck; this was a DIY job that I did myself, but I did so after extensive research and I believe this is the best way to run power from one part of the truck to the other, especially if you have dual batteries or a battery mounted in a place that isn't the engine compartment.

A bit more detail: Your alternator will be a "Smart" alternator, which means it will put out variable voltage depending on the charge state of your battery. That energy has to get into your battery -- either from the alternator into your primary battery, or from your primary battery to your secondary battery. This is high volt/high amp stuff - you want to be able to charge really efficiently, so you want to use cables that are generous enough to allow for that to maximize your recharge rate, and you also sometimes have really heavy draws (like a winch) so you also need cables that are sized generously enough for that draw out of the battery. These "big charge/big draws" are why that particular breaker is 150 amp and why they appear to be using 4 AWG cables.

So anyway, energy is coming from Alternator through a big cable. It should, as a best practice, go through a breaker as close to the source as you can reasonable make it work. The reason for this is that if, after 150,000 kms, an unnoticed hard part wears away the shielding of your really big cables and shorts out, it'll trip the breaker as soon as the short is detected. If you put the breaker at the other end -- away from the source of power and close to where the power is being saved up in the battery -- then you've got quite a few feet of cables that, should they be compromised and short, will be un-breakered and thus likely to start a major fire.

So to reiterate with word pictures:

Alternator --- Big Breaker ------------------------------------------------------Primary Battery under the seat

OR

Alternator ----- Battery under the hood----big breaker-----------------------------------------Second Battery elsewhere (common with a lot of dual battery builds from other manufacturers).

OR

Alternator--- Big Breaker ------------------------------------------------------------------Primary Battery under the Seat ---- 2nd Big Breaker --- Secondary Battery under the seat. (I believe this is the Ineos design).


Either way that black box is 99% certain to be a breaker for the application I've described here.


EDIT TO ADD MORE INFO:

The other reason I think the above is the "Ignition Controlled" language. This is also why I brought up the smart alternators earlier and then forgot to mention it again!

With "old school" alternators -- they generally put out a steady voltage for a given RPM -- you could use a simple solenoid to charge two batteries off the alternator. That solenoid could be ignition-triggered, so that when the engine is running, the alternator charges both your "primary" battery (Referred to as your "starting" battery) and your "secondary" battery (often referred to as your "house" battery). Then, when the engine is off, the solenoid is triggered the other way, which isolates your "house" battery from your "starting" battery, which is important - you don't want to fish that last beer out of your fridge only to find that your vehicle won't start because you drew down your batteries too far!

With modern smart alternators, a simple "Dumb" solenoid doesn't work as well -- the alternators, as I said, adjust their output "automagically" -- I won't get into the details here because it might as well be magic, but suffice it to say that modern alternators rely on computers to know how much energy to put out. Therefore, if you have a second battery in a modern vehicle, you will likely need to install a computer somewhere in the system to ensure both batteries are being charged when the engine is on, and that they are isolated when the engine is off. These computers are fairly cheap, mostly plug-and-play, and available all over the place - Redarc, Renogy, and CTEK are three of the main brands who sell these "DC to DC chargers". It is likely that the alternator feeds into that breaker, then there's a long run of cable to get to the rear seaet, where it connects to the primary battery and some form of DC to DC charger is installed when one options a second battery under the seat.

So in short: This is why the breaker is ignition controlled - you want your second battery to charge when the engine is running, but be isolated when it's not, and for modern trucks that requires fancy computers that are very sensitive to unregulated voltage/amps and thus control that energy very specifically.
 
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DCPU

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Was that a RHD vehicle though?
 

DCPU

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That was my best guess, looks like I'm wrong. I'm curious what it is for though. It's kind of a weird place to be with the rest of the main power circuits under the seat. The electrical circuit manuals will be out sooner or later.
It's located under the bonnet.
 

DCPU

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And a fuller answer from Red Winches:

"It is the circuit breaker for the power supply to the winch. It is measuring amp draw over time and will cut the winch power supply if the amp draw (load) becomes too great to protect the electrical system and vehicle. If it does cut out it will auto reset after a set amount of time."

20230607_082558_261.jpeg
 

DCPU

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The interesting thing is that I have this part fitted to my vehicle without the front winch; so it's part of the high load auxiliary switch option rather than the winch option.

So as there is a positive cable snaking off the output to disappear somewhere behind the headlight, it means that there must be a further (safe) termination; or in Ineos language a high load under bonnet output. Perhaps for those that would like an Anderson connector on/under the front bumper.
 

ECrider

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The interesting thing is that I have this part fitted to my vehicle without the front winch; so it's part of the high load auxiliary switch option rather than the winch option.

So as there is a positive cable snaking off the output to disappear somewhere behind the headlight, it means that there must be a further (safe) termination; or in Ineos language a high load under bonnet output. Perhaps for those that would like an Anderson connector on/under the front bumper.
That is very interesting.

It's almost like Dan Brown had a hand in the Ineos development. Going to find Tom Hanks in one of the wheel arches.

I like reading yours and others sleuthing on a daily basis. Totally unnecessary if IA had provided what they had promised.

Appreciated.
 

MrMike

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And a fuller answer from Red Winches:

"It is the circuit breaker for the power supply to the winch. It is measuring amp draw over time and will cut the winch power supply if the amp draw (load) becomes too great to protect the electrical system and vehicle. If it does cut out it will auto reset after a set amount of time."

View attachment 7815196
150amps? That's not a lot of load, my Warn pulls max 300 under load.
 

MrMike

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Over time different to MAX



No, not over time

Table: Amp Draw vs. Load​

Table: 12000 lb. Winches Amp Draw (in amps) vs. Load

Winch0 lbs2000 lbs3000 lbs4000 lbs6000 lbs8000 lbs9000 lbs10000 lbs12000 lbs
Smittybilt Gen3 XRC 12K COMP90 160 230 300 375
Smittybilt Gen3 XRC 12K90 160 230 300 375
Smittybilt Gen2 X2O Waterproof 1200070 138 218 260 330
Smittybilt Gen2 X2O COMP Waterproof 1200070 138 218 260 330
Warn M12000-S67 140 210 250 320 370 440
Warn M1200067 140 210 250 320 370 440
Warn Zeon 12-S66 141 209 272 335 401 469
Warn Zeon 1266 141 209 272 335 401 469
Warn VR1200065 144 215 281 349 415 457
Warn VR EVO 12-S65 144 215 281 349 415 457
Warn VR1265 144 215 281 349 415 457
Smittybilt Gen2 XRC Comp 1200065 163 244 315 400
Smittybilt Gen2 XRC 1200065 163 244 315 400
Warn VR12-S65 144 215 281 349 415 457
Warn Zeon 12-S Platinum57 132 200 261 321 381 446
Warn Zeon 12 Platinum57 132 200 261 321 381 446
Warn VR EVO 1255 120 178 234 288 337 396
Warn M12000 24V24 105 129 152 175 198 221
 
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