What would you say if you could ?

[HereinDaRockies]

“ hey man, what is your exit strategy for this venture? I’d like to develop some foresight into future ownership experience for this vehicle - good, bad, or devastating”

 

[CrazyOldMan]

“ hey man, what is your exit strategy for this venture? I’d like to develop some foresight into future ownership experience for this vehicle - good, bad, or devastating”

Carnac the Magnificent predicts fly fishing this weekend for my future ownership experience.

 

[mcdoogs]

“ hey man, what is your exit strategy for this venture? I’d like to develop some foresight into future ownership experience for this vehicle - good, bad, or devastating”

Not to speak for him but he definitely seems to be in the 'I do what the hell I want' phase of billionaire old age with this and partial ownership in his childhood football club (Manchester United). I'd bet good money on ineos auto running while he's alive and in control of Ineos

 

[CRH]

I'm going to have to check mine now, I hate stuff like that, OCD, so the wife says, but then she reckons all men are on the spectrum.

Mine's ok, currently

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Mine's ok, currently

Your wife, your OCD, or your hand brake?

 

[HereinDaRockies]

Not to speak for him but he definitely seems to be in the 'I do what the hell I want' phase of billionaire old age with this and partial ownership in his childhood football club (Manchester United). I'd bet good money on ineos auto running while he's alive and in control of Ineos

I literally have no impression of the guy.. not very interesting for me.. I guess I will just assess him via proxy through the Grenadier. I believe many are in the same camp as myself.. Lynn Calder really needs to attenuate the Sir Jim stories.. dude is no Elon.. people simply dgaf. Esp with the u.s. being the largest market. Radcliffe has near zero name recognition in the states. The vehicle itself makes a visual impact… that’s the bait…

 

[chrsbe]

4-8-6
Please order this number of cylinders according to sexyness.

 

[simonpa]

Please do not abandon those of us in the UK particularly the 'early purchasers' who have put their faith and monies into the Grenadier concept. Sales were always going to be low by
comparison to America and Australia in particular and therefore a reduced number of sales agents / workshops required but we still need access within reasonable distance and the
reliability of parts availability.

 

[Max]

I literally have no impression of the guy.. Radcliffe has near zero name recognition in the states.

Old mates Martin, Marc and Jimmy would just have a laugh
Ineos Automotive was founded as a 4x4 Petrol and Diesel carmaker by British engineer and businessman James Arthur Ratcliffe
Tesla Motors was founded as an electric carmaker by engineers Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning

 

[HereinDaRockies]

Old mates Martin, Marc and Jimmy would just have a laugh
Ineos Automotive was founded as a 4x4 Petrol and Diesel carmaker by British engineer and businessman James Arthur Ratcliffe
Tesla Motors was founded as an electric carmaker by engineers Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning

Maybe he is a household name in the commonwealth. Dude has zero name recognition here in IG’s largest market

 

[Max]

Maybe he is a household name in the commonwealth. Dude has zero name recognition here in IG’s largest market

For those of you that came late to the party, you would have to go back to when it started...It was started in a pub and became international automotive news that moved very quickly in the 4x4 market place mainly UK EU and OZ sorry about the late arrival in USA because maybe by now you would spell his name correctly

Here's a little light reading to catch up

Ineos Grenadier​

Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Ineos_Grenadier





The Grenadier was designed to be a modern replacement of the original Land Rover Defender, with boxy bodywork, a steel ladder chassis, beam axles with long- ...
‎Ineos Automotive · ‎The Grenadier · ‎Hambach, Moselle · ‎Team Sky

 

[HereinDaRockies]

For those of you that came late to the party, you would have to go back to when it started...It was started in a pub and became international automotive news that moved very quickly in the 4x4 market place mainly UK EU and OZ sorry about the late arrival in USA because maybe by now you would spell his name correctly

Here's a little light reading to catch up

Ineos Grenadier​

View attachment 7885412
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Ineos_Grenadier




View attachment 7885413
The Grenadier was designed to be a modern replacement of the original Land Rover Defender, with boxy bodywork, a steel ladder chassis, beam axles with long- ...
‎Ineos Automotive · ‎The Grenadier · ‎Hambach, Moselle · ‎Team Sky

I am saying no one cares about that.. several years in the ceo still talks about Jim lore.. won’t move the damn needle at all

When people inquire about the origins of the vehicle I just say it’s a new auto venture from England.. Jim story is tedious af, and quite cringe to reiterate

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I am saying no one cares about that.. several years in the ceo still talks about Jim lore.. won’t move the damn needle at all

I also don’t think constant repetition of the “lore” and appeal to “Jim Ratcliffe, Adventurer Extraordinaire” means anything in the US market, which will make or break IA. The US 4x4 market is strongly rooted in post-war Jeep tradition and trucks - not Defenders and safaris. Anglophiles are irrelevant in that segment (and probably should keep a low profile). Other than the 18 people in the US who represent the intersection of the Venn Diagram, IA should just deliver and stop it with cute stories and fancy trims. Quality, durability, spare parts, serviceability - and doesn’t break with a 2” lift. Or just keep the look and wimp out with all the fancy features and road manners - in which case, they will be competing with everyone else who is doing the same.

 

[Max]

I also don’t think constant repetition of the “lore” and appeal to “Jim Ratcliffe, Adventurer Extraordinaire” means anything in the US market, which will make or break IA. The US 4x4 market is strongly rooted in post-war Jeep tradition and trucks - not Defenders and safaris. Anglophiles are irrelevant in that segment (and probably should keep a low profile). Other than the 18 people in the US who represent the intersection of the Venn Diagram, IA should just deliver and stop it with cute stories and fancy trims. Quality, durability, spare parts, serviceability - and doesn’t break with a 2” lift. Or just keep the look and wimp out with all the fancy features and road manners - in which case, they will be competing with everyone else who is doing the same.

We must have mixed messages because our Jim Ratcliffe hardly ever featured selling the vehicle to us or being an Adventurer Extraordinaire...he would feature as the boss of Ineos from time to time when being interviewed, low profile...and being first handraisers we were feed about the vehicle through direct emails sent from IA. 2019-2022 and on going aftersale, Great propaganda and I own one and not without issues...suck it and see...love driving the truck

 

[Max]

Jim story is tedious af, and quite cringe to reiterate

If I talk about the Grenadier, no one cares were or who the money came from but who it went to to create the Vehicle and that is why I have one, not without issues sitting in the carage

 

[holdmybeer]

Yeah I'm indifferent to the Anglo aspect of the origin story. But I'm definitely a sucker for a stubborn individual who wants to bring a vision to reality. You'd think that would play well in America but apparently not.

I wouldn't have put my money down so quickly in 2021 if this was a faceless, corporate, design-by-committee project. It needed a personality. Maybe it doesn't anymore.

Non-personality projects that address provable market demands and fit well into existing market categories ... like the new Bronco or Land Cruiser ... are less risky.

 

[Max]

Yeah I'm indifferent to the Anglo aspect of the origin story. But I'm definitely a sucker for a stubborn individual who wants to bring a vision to reality. You'd think that would play well in America but apparently not.

I wouldn't have put my money down so quickly in 2021 if this was a faceless, corporate, design-by-committee project. It needed a personality. Maybe it doesn't anymore.

Non-personality projects that address provable market demands and fit well into existing market categories ... like the new Bronco or Land Cruiser ... are less risky.

I had similar thoughts but only thought of him as the Ineos Chief and checked out every little bit of info I could about Ithe company and of course he was the personality of Ineos not the vehicle...then I checked his cred and wow impressive, a driven and quite a knock about individual with like minded around him...so I started really getting into the whole process and watched the Grenadier's personality grow...design, engineering ect. the rest is history and sitting in my carage...

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Yeah I'm indifferent to the Anglo aspect of the origin story. But I'm definitely a sucker for a stubborn individual who wants to bring a vision to reality. You'd think that would play well in America but apparently not.

I wouldn't have put my money down so quickly in 2021 if this was a faceless, corporate, design-by-committee project. It needed a personality. Maybe it doesn't anymore.

Non-personality projects that address provable market demands and fit well into existing market categories ... like the new Bronco or Land Cruiser ... are less risky.

Sure - I love the contrarian spirit and “put your money where your mouth is” personal commitment, as well. But we’re the nut cases - the ones who were emotionally invested long ago and made our decision with nothing but a promise and some pictures and stories. That will now slow to a trickle, and the more rational buyers will be the ones who make the cool idea a sustainable business. They’ll look at reliability, cost of ownership, serviceability, availability and cost of spare parts, modification capabilities etc. We’re the starry-eyed romantics - we can’t carry the business. There are not enough of us - I THINK there are enough people with an interest in solid axle, body on frame adventure wagon (I think the Toyota decision on Land Cruiser was about selling to a mass market, not that the original design premise was inherently flawed) - but that’s a tough crowd to serve. They don’t put up with a lot of BS, and they aren’t going to put up with having to have their vehicle towed 500 miles and sitting on dealer lots for a month because parts aren’t available - or paying for $2000 windshields. The story got the first adopters in - IA now has to perform. And - looming problem - if a hefty tariff gets slapped on them for US buyers - the show is over, world-wide. If an entry unit goes from low 80’s to 100 - done. No amount of Detour nonsense can save them.

Amendment - the tariff point - that actually is an area where the eccentric Brexit billionaire thing could pay off. If Ratcliffe would say EU ICE regulations were strangling ability to operate, that the effeminate elites in Brussels are clueless, and that America has the guts to stand up to the nonsense - the amount of ego stroking that would give to Trump, Ineos might just be able to get relief on tariffs (especially if there were a US production strategy). Then Ineos should triple-down on the Jim stories and make him wear a cowboy hat and buy a ranch in Wyoming. Maybe he could even come out with a statement about what a good idea it would be if Greenland were a US territory (I kid, I kid)

 

[NQ94]

What would say if I could. Why is the Ineos dealer and service network so unstable? Why has Ineos not delivered the promised dealers? What is wrong with the Ineos product that established dealers that were listed as on-sellers or agents from the beginning prior to first deliveries have not established Ineos dealers? I really do not think it is Ineos rejecting these dealers but the dealers rejecting Ineos as a high risk venture for their already long-established businesses in some regions. I had my heart set on a Quartermaster cab chassis in Australia and held off until they were available. The only reason I cancelled my reservation and never purchased one is the promised dealer in Mackay, the closest to my home, was never established. I was willing to deal with the quirks of any Ineos product as long as there was a service agent relatively close to home, not 4 or 5 hours away. As a result of the Ineos dealer or service centre not establishing like mentioned in their prerelease statements or their internet page I have decided to go with another brand that is very well supported in the Mackay region, something I did not really want to do. Don't get me wrong, I really like the Ineos product but as a field service Tech I expect the same service from a car brand as the people I work for expect from me to keep their trucks and equipment operational. I wonder how many sales Ineos has lost in Europe, UK and Australia because of the promised network not being delivered or constantly changing as mentioned in posts in this forum or FB.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

What would say if I could. Why is the Ineos dealer and service network so unstable? Why has Ineos not delivered the promised dealers? What is wrong with the Ineos product that established dealers that were listed as on-sellers or agents from the beginning prior to first deliveries have not established Ineos dealers? I really do not think it is Ineos rejecting these dealers but the dealers rejecting Ineos as a high risk venture for their already long-established businesses in some regions. I had my heart set on a Quartermaster cab chassis in Australia and held off until they were available. The only reason I cancelled my reservation and never purchased one is the promised dealer in Mackay, the closest to my home, was never established. I was willing to deal with the quirks of any Ineos product as long as there was a service agent relatively close to home, not 4 or 5 hours away. As a result of the Ineos dealer or service centre not establishing like mentioned in their prerelease statements or their internet page I have decided to go with another brand that is very well supported in the Mackay region, something I did not really want to do. Don't get me wrong, I really like the Ineos product but as a field service Tech I expect the same service from a car brand as the people I work for expect from me to keep their trucks and equipment operational. I wonder how many sales Ineos has lost in Europe, UK and Australia because of the promised network not being delivered or constantly changing as mentioned in posts in this forum or FB.

Forward stock locations and inventory for (reasonably priced) spare parts, free SW access for independent techs/shops, and “hassle free” warranty coverage for independent shops for the next 5 years while they build out their network - whatever that is. The Recaro situation shouldn’t have shut down spare parts production and local stocking levels - they should have used the time wisely. Sure, this is expensive - it’s more expensive not to do it. I think they’re afraid to do it because dealers make margin on service and parts - but I think the dealer would RATHER make the margin on unit sales, and if a hostage service strategy is strangling sales, they would be OK with an open strategy