What do you think of the prices shared so far?

[DaveB]

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2016-land-rover-defender-manual-awd-my16/SSE-AD-12510111/?Cr=11
Here is an add for  2016 Landrover Defender 2.2L Diesel with 101,000 kms on it. AUD$120K which is more than a fully specced up Grenadier will be. I think the Grenadier prices are looking pretty good

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2021-land-rover-defender-110-p400-hse-auto-awd-my21/SSE-AD-12268317/?Cr=5
A 2021 New Model Defender with a 3 L Diesel for AUD$170,000 plus on road cost. 

Makes the Grenadiers $85-100K pricing look pretty good

 

[PL1]

Holy sh*t that's expensive.   'Gentrified' Defender 110's go for about that money in USD.  It will be really interesting to see what happens to the Defender market when Grenadiers are arriving onshore in sufficient numbers.
I saw a video on the Hambach plant, and it said in full production they can turn out a Grenadier every 5 mins.   If that's the volume Sir Jim is aiming for, that will put downward pressure on pricing. 

 

[DaveB]

 If they are putting out 1 every 5 minutes then it just depends how many shifts they run and how many days a week they work. I have allowed for 4 weeks of maintenance or shutdown in the numbers and a 7 day week
I recall someone saying they had a target capacity of 25,000??? and a maximum of 45,000 per year. 
That seems to be closer to them working a 5 day week between 1 & 2 shifts

 

[emax]

What is a 'shift' in this context? (native German ...)


PS: Ok, just got it by looking at the table again: 8 hrs of work. In Germans: "Schicht".

 

[emax]

I guess they will run as many shifts as there is demand - provided they get enough workers.

The numbers I've heard are '35000 cars a year, and we can double this number'. Taken that this was a marketing statement,  your estimate seems quite close.

 

[DaveB]

What is a 'shift' in this context? (native German ...)


PS: Ok, just got it by looking at the table again: 8 hrs of work. In Germans: "Schicht".

Hi yes sorry we all have to remember we are talking to a global audience.  A shift is Morning, Afternoon or Night  8 hours at a time. 
Although there is always a slow down for shift change. 

 

[DaveB]

I guess they will run as many shifts as there is demand - provided they get enough workers.

The numbers I've heard are '35000 cars a year, and we can double this number'. Taken that this was a marketing statement,  your estimate seems quite close.

Yes that is why I put the ???? after 25,000. I couldn't remember if it was 25, or 35,000

 

[Gasman]

at one of the prototype meets the grenadier folks told me that you could choose all the options and not get this thing over 100k USD

 

[DaveB]

Is that $100K USD or AUD$

 

[emax]

> A trip to the Porsche configurator will totally drive one nuts in terms of cost of options

Twenty years ago, I configured a Porsche just for fun. The price was clearly  far over 100K Euros. Just out of curiosity, I decided to add a "carbon fiber cruise control lever" instead of the normal one which made of plastic.

The price raised by 1000 Euros ....

? ?

 

[Gravel]

They have to want a piece of the the JL market here in the US. Most folks are stretching the dollar to get a fully loaded Rubicon - with any kind of a package that's 65 - 70K USD. I can't imagine them starting this thing at 80K and up. They'd lose a lot of customers. The fancy folks spending money on plastic Defenders are a subgroup, no reason to target them with the pricing. It'd be smart to make the base around a well packaged Rubicon (~55-60K USD) and max out around 75-80K. Gonna be a real bummer if more, because us mortals will never touch one of these for 100K - it'll be wasted on city folk driving back and forth to the mall.

 

[DaveB]

They have to want a piece of the the JL market here in the US. Most folks are stretching the dollar to get a fully loaded Rubicon - with any kind of a package that's 65 - 70K USD. I can't imagine them starting this thing at 80K and up. They'd lose a lot of customers. The fancy folks spending money on plastic Defenders are a subgroup, no reason to target them with the pricing. It'd be smart to make the base around a well packaged Rubicon (~55-60K USD) and max out around 75-80K. Gonna be a real bummer if more, because us mortals will never touch one of these for 100K - it'll be wasted on city folk driving back and forth to the mall.

I wouldn’t consider any of the Jeep products to be direct competitors. 
I will be extremely unhappy if the Grenadier is as poor quality and performance as any Jeep.

 

[Gravel]

>>> I wouldn’t consider any of the Jeep products to be direct competitors. 
I will be extremely unhappy if the Grenadier is as poor quality and performance as any Jeep.

Totally agree. I'm not talking about the product, but the consumer and where the gap is. I would hope that I could get almost anyone to agree that top model Wranglers are hugely overpriced. The reason this is supported by the market in the US is because there are so few good options between the 50 - 80K mark. If you want solid axles with lockers front and rear, good entry, exit, and breakover angles in a vehicle that is utilitarian we're hard pressed in the US. When you look at Ineos' advertising they show a humble farmer interested in their rig - No humble farmers in the US buying a 100k vehicle unless its a tractor.

 

[Paachi]

By all accounts from what we’ve heard from Ineos representatives, the Grenadier Should land at $65K base and $75K loaded. From an options standpoint I really don’t see not choosing most of the options. The only things I don’t care for in the current configurator are leather seats, carpeting and some smaller stuff. All other things like lockers, ladder, camp table are IMHO a must have (because hopefully they are well designed from the factory)

A current model JL Rubicon or Bronco Badlands while might retail for $60K, are actually $80K-$100K trucks after stupid dealer markups. And there in lies the rub for my purchase decision. If the Grenadier has similar dealer markups I am out. Unfortunately due to the route Ineos has chosen to take for the sales in US they cannot commit to avoiding dealer markups. Sad. I am still holding hope they they will figure out some good solution for early hand raisers

 

[Spjnr]

The Bronco prices are ridiculous ATM, I wouldn't pay $100k for one, especially with the quality concerns that have already cropped up. 

...not that i can buy one being in the UK....

Apart from the LHD imports that are nutty money!

 

[DaveB]

In Australia they are running the agency model. So we will be buying directly from Ineos and the dealers will be getting a commission.
so no dealer markups.

 

[AZGrenadier]

Why do people think that every keep person will be cross shopping the grenadier. I think it could be significantly more expensive and they will still sell everyone they can get to the US.  There are plenty of built jeeps with over 100k sunk into them, these same buyers probably would let a 120k price tag on a built grenadier dissuade them. For a lot of people the 60 or 70 may be a stretch, but for a lot of others it is simply a 3rd or 4th or 5th vehicle. I think I read that ineos is planning on 900 units for the US for the first year.  Jeep sells more than that on any given weekend. 

 

[ADVAW8S]

I think another way to think of it is not the total price of the car but what the monthly car payment.  Most people look at price range and then when they sit down, the dealer shows monthly payments and people are more accepting.   Think about how long car payments have stretched out with average person taking a 6 year car loan.   BTW, my Grenadier will be a weekend adventure vehicle.   

 

[DaveB]

I think the fact that it looks like an old school 4WD, Defender, Landcruiser 45/55 G Wagon etc, but has enough mod cons, good off road,  but will accept modifications for more serious stuff and still drives well on road is the real draw card.
For those of us that want something different in a daily driver but still need to be able to live with it and use it for work.
If the asking price is too high for you then maybe it isn’t for you.
The last thing we want is for them to engineer it down to a price point to make the marketing department happy. 

 

[Spjnr]

Why do people think that every keep person will be cross shopping the grenadier. I think it could be significantly more expensive and they will still sell everyone they can get to the US.  There are plenty of built jeeps with over 100k sunk into them, these same buyers probably would let a 120k price tag on a built grenadier dissuade them. For a lot of people the 60 or 70 may be a stretch, but for a lot of others it is simply a 3rd or 4th or 5th vehicle. I think I read that ineos is planning on 900 units for the US for the first year.  Jeep sells more than that on any given weekend. 

Exactly. Any low volume manufacturer only has to appeal to the 0.1% of customers with the wherewithal and desire to buy a vehicle that's a bit different. 1% of Europe, USA and Australia is a lot of people