Unacceptable build quality issues on delivery?

[Greasemonkey]

My vehicle is said to have been built in mid-January. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was built before the turn of the year and then sat around somewhere for a long time in the damp spring. On the front axle, the wheel hubs and the support for the aluminum rims were also quite rusty. Meanwhile I've taken quite a few panels off the inside and haven't found any corrosion anywhere else. I also haven't had any problems with the air conditioning and I've never had water in the footwell.

 

[DCPU]

@Greasemonkey - have you shared the photos with your agent and asked for their/Ineos' comments?

 

[DaveB]

There is (at least in Germany) a legal way to react:

• Address a notice of defects to the seller and give him the opportunity to "rectify" within a reasonable deadline. Preferably by registered mail.
• If this does not happen within that time, you can return the product for a refund. A "reasonable" depreciation is to be accepted, but is for an almost new vehicle rather zero.
• If the defect still exists after the repair, you can "convert" the purchase contract. In Germany, this means that the contract is cancelled and the transaction is reversed: Car back, money back, and done.

Unfortunately, you then no longer have a car, and may wait a year and then pay the new prices.

But that's another topic.

We have the "lemon" law.

 

[CB]

I have been a reservation holder for more than 2 years. I agree, every vehicle has issues. However, in the US, there are Ford, Jeep, and Toyota dealers on practically every corner so getting repairs and updates isn't a major issue. This is not the case with the IG, therefore, I am waiting to see the service network in the US before I purchase one.

 

[Greasemonkey]

@Greasemonkey - have you shared the photos with your agent and asked for their/Ineos' comments?

No, not yet. I discovered the corrosion on the weekend. But I will send them the pictures.

 

[jert]

My vehicle is said to have been built in mid-January. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was built before the turn of the year and then sat around somewhere for a long time in the damp spring. On the front axle, the wheel hubs and the support for the aluminum rims were also quite rusty. Meanwhile I've taken quite a few panels off the inside and haven't found any corrosion anywhere else. I also haven't had any problems with the air conditioning and I've never had water in the footwell.

Know what you talking about. Mine is on steels and most likely built back in 2021 - Ups, not possible ;-)

 

[Stu_Barnes]

As far as I am aware absolutely nobody in the US has placed an actual order yet, received definitive and final prices, or even found out which dealer they will be working with.

Correct

 

[evomind]

Know what you talking about. Mine is on steels and most likely built back in 2021 - Ups, not possible ;-)View attachment 7822668

That's pretty normal....

 

[DCPU]

That's pretty normal....

For what?

 

[255/85]

For what?

for raw steel under dash components or for parts that are milled after casting and receiving a protective finish. Evrery new car I have ever purchased had the same harmless flash (surface) rust on bulkheads, steering knuckles, brake wheel cylinders, interior handbrake support brackets, calipers, etc.

The only solution is to pull things apart or mask and spray with paint, clear coat, or rustproofing.

 

[jert]

for raw steel under dash components or for parts that are milled after casting and receiving a protective finish. Evrery new car I have ever purchased had the same harmless flash (surface) rust on bulkheads, steering knuckles, brake wheel cylinders, interior handbrake support brackets, calipers, etc.

The only solution is to pull things apart or mask and spray with paint, clear coat, or rustproofing.

Never experienced that with any new car I bought in the past 35years. Did not plan to starting with my brand new car by taking it apart and do rust removal/rust protection outside and inside ? Maybe getting some cavity sealing done or ceramic protection for the paint.

 

[trobex]

Never experienced that with any new car I bought in the past 35years. Did not plan to starting with my brand new car by taking it apart and do rust removal/rust protection outside and inside ? Maybe getting some cavity sealing done or ceramic protection for the paint.

I am with you on this. I have an 18-year-old MIT Triton, it has been used a fair bit and never taken care of too much as it's a heavy work vehicle, and it has almost NO rust... the only thing really rusting is the brackets that hold my tail/side panels on the alloy tray as the brackets are galvanised and have been knocked around a lot. There are quite a few owners now who have posted pics of rust in various areas of this new IG and again I am taking mental notes (and paper) of things I will have to check when mine arrives later in the year. Not that I have time to sit under the chassis/hood and review ALL the things this forum has presented - I got kids to feed.

 

[RunBikeDive]

Know what you talking about. Mine is on steels and most likely built back in 2021 - Ups, not possible ;-)View attachment 7822668

I have steels on my 110 that are over 10yrs old now. Never had this issue. However I did have this same problem on a set of method rims on my 100 series Land Cruiser. Just over 18 month old & they looked similar to your Grenadier rims. wire brush & paint did the job.

This Shouldn't happen on a new vehicle, but It will take something majorly wrong on the Grenadier for me to give up my order or deter me from being an owner.

 

[jert]

I have steels on my 110 that are over 10yrs old now. Never had this issue. However I did have this same problem on a set of method rims on my 100 series Land Cruiser. Just over 18 month old & they looked similar to your Grenadier rims. wire brush & paint did the job.

This Shouldn't happen on a new vehicle, but It will take something majorly wrong on the Grenadier for me to give up my order or deter me from being an owner.

Don't get me wrong, not giving up my order because of this.

 

[Cheshire cat]

Funny how the bad news travels so quickly but the positives take a little longer. Like lots of owners on here I am finding that as the miles increase, the false alarms are getting fewer. I can now do 100 miles and there is a fair chance I will have absolutely no false warnings. I don’t know enough about software to say if this might be perfectly normal but it is the experience of a few on here.

 

[GrenadierDan]

To me it’s not the issues with the truck so much as Ineos’ response to these issues. I figured a new mfr would have some initial QC issues to solve, but Ineos should know that too and have a troubleshooting team in place to get technical info out to agents ASAP. So far, have any of these problems been addressed in any meaningful way? I really only know what I hear in this forum, but I worry a bit about Ineos’ resources. At this point I’m just on the sidelines, and will be patient. That being said, I can’t say I’m one of those that wants an $85K project vehicle.

I have to agree. Prior to paying for my vehicle I went and did an inspection. This inspection identified a few of the common problems already highlighted. Ineos have yet to respond let alone rectify the problems and that was a month ago. Complete radio silence associated with rectification of a few simple issues. Very disappointing.

 

[GrenadierDan]

Yes but people are talking with them, communicating like grownups, accepting a new manufacturer with a new assembly plant and a new vehicle will have problems.
Demanding and threatening and cancelling, or threatening to is not the act of a grown adult.
Now Ok if the software update doesn't come through soon and fix a lot of these problems then that is another issue.
Unlike many other manufacturers Ineos at least held the original pricing for existing order holders as a form of compensation.
Many manufacturers, including Toyota, are saying "you will get what your are given, when we are ready to give it to you, with specifications we decide, and you will pay what we tell you"
JLR are buying back customer vehicles so they can rob them for parts.
Which they are re-using as if they are new parts. WTF??

Dave, I agree that threatening to cancel, under normal circumstances may not be considered the act of an adult but what are you supposed to do when there is COMPLETE radio silence on the part of Ineos. If they can't fix a few basic issues prior to delivery what hope is there when broken down in the middle of nowhere. I am desperately in love with the vehicle but am now convinced that Ineos Automotive is under resourced and incapable of supporting their vehicle.

 

[DaveB]

Dave, I agree that threatening to cancel, under normal circumstances may not be considered the act of an adult but what are you supposed to do when there is COMPLETE radio silence on the part of Ineos. If they can't fix a few basic issues prior to delivery what hope is there when broken down in the middle of nowhere. I am desperately in love with the vehicle but am now convinced that Ineos Automotive is under resourced and incapable of supporting their vehicle.

I understand that thought but don't know what you mean by complete radio silence.
I have had all my questions answered since day one.
I have had good communications from all 3 dealers in southern Queensland.
I participated in a global meeting with Ineos a year ago along with two other Australian customers where they asked for our input and requirements.
My vehicle is on the vessel below, which is off the coast of South Africa.
I have the VIN number
As I have said on here before my company has 5 Toyota RAV 4 vehicles on order for over a year.
Toyota can't even tell them when they will be manufactured, what the specification will be or what the price will be.
I can guarantee they won't tell them what ship they are on.
The software issues are annoying but I am expecting them to be dealt with before I take delivery in September/October
Most of the physical problems have been with very early delivery vehicles.
This is the first batch, of the first series, of the first model year of a brand new car manufacturer.
I think most of us expected issues.
Yes it is very sad and annoying what has happened to some of the earliest owners and in some cases I think Ineos should just give them a new vehicle.

 

[GrenadierDan]

I understand that thought but don't know what you mean by complete radio silence.
I have had all my questions answered since day one.
I have had good communications from all 3 dealers in southern Queensland.
I participated in a global meeting with Ineos a year ago along with two other Australian customers where they asked for our input and requirements.
My vehicle is on the vessel below, which is off the coast of South Africa.
I have the VIN number
As I have said on here before my company has 5 Toyota RAV 4 vehicles on order for over a year.
Toyota can't even tell them when they will be manufactured, what the specification will be or what the price will be.
I can guarantee they won't tell them what ship they are on.
The software issues are annoying but I am expecting them to be dealt with before I take delivery in September/October
Most of the physical problems have been with very early delivery vehicles.
This is the first batch, of the first series, of the first model year of a brand new car manufacturer.
I think most of us expected issues.
Yes it is very sad and annoying what has happened to some of the earliest owners and in some cases I think Ineos should just give them a new vehicl

 

[GrenadierDan]

Dave,

After my inspection I raised the issues of rubber steering boot and incorrectly fixed roof strips with the agent who indicated that Ineos are normally very good at responding. The response I got from the agent was that all the vehicles they had were like that. That might be the case but doesn't make it right. I then raised the issue with Ineos's customer service department who have been wonderful and polite. The result of multiple phone calls is always the same. A heart felt apology saying they had escalated the issue and are awaiting a response. I am patiently waiting this response while the car sits on the dealership floor.

These are not big issues, and in fact I could probably fix them myself. However, with a new car I don't believe I shouldn't have to do this. I have harbored concerns about Ineos Automotives ability to support their cars for some time and unfortunately these concerns have proved to be justified in my case. I am heartened to hear you have had a better experience.

My other concern is that Ineos have promised to make parts and workshop manuals available to owners. With Ineos's limited support network I see the provision of this documentation as critical to the ownership experience as I will not always have access to approved Ineos agents when using this vehicle as our 'Grey Nomad Truck'. If Ineos walk back from this commitment then in my opinion the vehicle might be 'Built On Purpose' but I would argue it is not fit for purpose.

I currently own a 33 year old ex-military Land Rover Perentie and although the driving experience can be described as 'raw' the old girl can be relied on no matter how far off the beaten track I get. It doesn't often break down but when it does at least I am able to either fix it myself or get it repaired at most mechanics I find. I was hoping that would be the case with the Grenadier. Without the workshop manuals I do not see how this is the case. Until such time as these are available I don't feel comfortable taking the car too far off the beaten track.