Turning radius improvement with simple bolt-stop mod?

[anand]

I thought the point of the bolt steering stops was to remove the potential impact to the knuckle while on rough terrain or say driving in ruts. The steering is limited by more than just those stops, if you remove the stops you are limited to the upper and lower control arms there and also when the knuckle makes contact and if I am correct here the steering is by wire which has electronic and pressure safety stops. Anyone here ever done some drifting car mods??? If so you will know what I'm getting at......

There is no steering-by-wire in the Grenadier; additionally to my knowledge there is no pressure bypass within the pump

 

[Tenac]

There is no steering-by-wire in the Grenadier; additionally to my knowledge there is no pressure bypass within the pump

It pretty much better have a pressure bypass built in the loop. I don't recall the last one I've ever seen without one. yeah the grenadier isn't steer by wire, did mean to make it sound that way was just calling out what typically seen today.

Wanted to add I remember back in the day we would adjust to stop bolts to keep large tires from rubbing, hence removing much steering angle. lol

 

[Tenac]

I'm wondering if there is a company that might make adjustable steering arms for the Grenny so maybe we can actually just adjust the stop bolt without risking over draw or undue stress.

 

[Tenac]

So here is a follow up. I previously checked my steering stop contact by turning the truck and having someone hold the steering wheel. I dont recall if this was with or without the stock steering stabilizer or without a stabilizer at all. But I certainly did not see contact, not even close. Since I have put several thousand miles on the truck and now of course have the Fox ATS on the truck.

So I grabbed some yellow gear marking compound I had laying around and applied it to the non adjustable side of the steering stops. Then I drove around the neighborhood a bit. Now the steering stops most certainly touch. Well at least one did. The other was blocked by the steering stabilizer fully compressing and acting as a stop. This is due to the early adoption method of using the stock FOX mounting bracket pushed all the way up to the stock IG mount. So the stock IG mount on the tie rod needs to go at this point. I will likely just fabricate a new well on piece to properly mount the FOX stabilizer. Once that’s fixed I will most certainly make some adjustments to the steering stops and verify if I’m still hitting them or if something else is binding.

So out of curiosity I just checked this on my OEM Grenadier. With vehicle running sitting on pavement if I have the wife turn all the way right or left it will not hit the bolt stops it seems as though the pressure releases right at where I think its a nats ass from touching. Vehicle running lifted the front it hits both stops no problem. So this means the static pressure on the tires is causing some resistance, which is why in your driving around you found it does contact. Just some food for thought. I would like to adjust mine about half way to start with which should give me a few more degrees of turning. I'm going to ask an alignment shop to do this and check on it for me.

 

[Clark Kent]

So when the pressure gets too high in the pump it allows for fluid bypass, in the lower pump itself. Meaning when you hit the full turn it will no longer actually turn it will send fluid around in a loop until the limit is lowered. This doesn't actually mean its less than the stop bolt is just depends on the pressure needed for it to start to release. This could explain why some are seeing removal of stops not really doing anything and others finding it useful. So on some modern cars like BMW's there is also a electronic limiter as well that will trigger the pressure relief when it sees the value back from what source they are using.

Concur. This action also explains the change in pitch of the PS pump and electric drive motor when you push against the steering stops. In bypass the pump goes into a closed loop circuit and the operating pressure and mechanical drive load momentarily reduces.

With the engine running, turn the steering all the way to either side until it stops moving then release it. Now go look at the stops on the knuckles. On my vehicle there is a good 10mm (3/8”) air gap over the stops. There is some spring back from the tyres on the ground which makes this test slightly inaccurate. I haven't repeated it with the steering wheel held hard against the limit by an assistant, but I still don't think that stop bolt is the first limit reached in normal operation.
The steering box also has a mechanical limit. There's only so far the internals can travel (worm gear, ball nut and sector shaft).

 

[Tenac]

Concur. This action also explains the change in pitch of the PS pump and electric drive motor when you push against the steering stops. In bypass the pump goes into a closed loop circuit and the operating pressure and mechanical drive load momentarily reduces.

With the engine running, turn the steering all the way to either side until it stops moving then release it. Now go look at the stops on the knuckles. On my vehicle there is a good 10mm (3/8”) air gap over the stops. There is some spring back from the tyres on the ground which makes this test slightly inaccurate. I haven't repeated it with the steering wheel held hard against the limit by an assistant, but I still don't think that stop bolt is the first limit reached in normal operation.
The steering box also has a mechanical limit. There's only so far the internals can travel (worm gear, ball nut and sector shaft).

I agree, just out of my curiosity I think while in motion looking at how far I can turn the wheel compared to a stop is greater before I feel it stop... So I'm thinking in motion it does hit the stops. Like the other poster said used transfer paint to show it. I don't have any sadly to try that out.

 

[Clark Kent]

I agree, just out of my curiosity I think while in motion looking at how far I can turn the wheel compared to a stop is greater before I feel it stop... So I'm thinking in motion it does hit the stops. Like the other poster said used transfer paint to show it. I don't have any sadly to try that out.

There's likely some variation here which is why I noted on my vehicle. Others will see different. Making absolute statements on this forum just pulls the pin out of the grenade.
I can't dismiss what @anand said either about the pump bypass. My knowledge of RB steering and PS is dated and I'm channelling operating theory from 40+ years ago. It's entirely possible that the Grenadier system uses electric motor speed control to set the pump pressure according to load demand. That would be far more economical, but possibly noisy!