Trump tariff. Ineos Automotive is dead right?

[Shopkeep]

Here is the one from my X5M

View attachment 7886202

Very interesting! I wonder if this will have to be split out further in the future show the specific Canadian and US percentages?

 

[Tenac]

Very interesting! I wonder if this will have to be split out further in the future show the specific Canadian and US percentages?

My guess is many of these tariff's will not be as impactful as we think, the countries being impacted will yield and they will either get lowered or nothing at all. The real deal is to keep eye on industrial startups and permit requests for starting up thinks like steel mills, and other heavy industry. BMW recently went and spent more than any other automotive investment in Spartanburg and spent money on the ports. Keep in mind BMW is US's largest exported of auto's (well was a year or so back not sure if it all still holds but I'd say probably). If tariff's do apply I think in due time US will start production again. Also don't forget TMSC moved rapidly to build in AZ one of the largest production plants in the world for Semiconductor production. When people think its too costly I always reference things like that for an example. But then again who knows lol.

Added this is interesting from MAGNA's website.

 

[Zimm]

You guys don’t seriously think the tariffs on Canada are about illegal immigration and fentanyl? The northern border accounted for 1.5% of Border Patrol apprehensions and less than 1.0% of fentanyl seizures.

The tariffs on Canada are a warning to the rest of the free world, if they are willing to shaft a like minded and significant trading partner this way the rest of you better give us what we want or you will be next. Therefore unless the EU concedes to his demands there is a high chance of new US Grenadier prices rising in the future.

Ahhh, NO. 49% do!

 

[Roach]

There's one here using his as a DD and over a year now.

Goes to show, California is all about the car

 

[Gaffer]

As a free-market guy, I am skeptical of tariffs. But my view is unsettled by the fact that, for most of the 19th century, tariffs were significant enough to be the key source of US federal revenues AND still the US became a leading industrial power. Tariffs weren't a complete impediment apparently.

In any case, perhaps the Grenadier could be built in the US. BMWs are made in South Carolina and for a while BMW was considering building engines here.

 

[Zimm]

There's one here using his as a DD and over a year now.

Mine is DDish. I’m on track for 18k a year, which is 50% of my driving.

 

[FlyingTexan]

? Ok put your head in the sand.. don’t hedge your risks owning a vehicle that becomes even more difficult to source parts for..

Ignore the news, then everything will be ok

I mean it's pretty obvious that the tariffs are a negotiation tactic. I mean Mexico and Canada already buckled. Cost him nothing.

 

[FlyingTexan]

With respect. You won't be paying only 80.000 dollars very soon. Ineos have also come out with a deluxe version prices at around £130,000 plus extras, here in UK.

You can go onto their website and order one from $75,100.00

 

[Jiman01]

Ahhh, NO. 49% do!

49%…right

Well said CNN

 

[Dreadfully Distinct]

I mean it's pretty obvious that the tariffs are a negotiation tactic. I mean Mexico and Canada already buckled. Cost him nothing.

Exactly. The sky isn’t falling.

 

[Cheshire cat]

You can go onto their website and order one from $75,100.00

Let’s hope it stays that way.

 

[landmannnn]

As a free-market guy, I am skeptical of tariffs. But my view is unsettled by the fact that, for most of the 19th century, tariffs were significant enough to be the key source of US federal revenues AND still the US became a leading industrial power. Tariffs weren't a complete impediment apparently.

In any case, perhaps the Grenadier could be built in the US. BMWs are made in South Carolina and for a while BMW was considering building engines here.

However the Boston Tea Party was quite a pivotal moment in American history, that was all about tariffs I believe.

 

[Zimm]

I mean it's pretty obvious that the tariffs are a negotiation tactic. I mean Mexico and Canada already buckled. Cost him nothing.

Well yea, it's obvious, but that doesn't mean the effect on victims is any different. Why would it cost him anything, no matter the outcome? Why should citizens care what it cost him? The USA isn't "his". All it has cost the US, is the faith of the ROW that we are a reliable business partner that can be trusted to stand by them thru thick and thin. Whatever he wanted to negotiate, and whatever tactic he wanted to take, he could have done with a private phone call and not embarrassed anyone.

Think of this in business terms, since we are discussing the effect on Ineos as a business. Canada, Mexico, their citizens and their companies used to look at the US as a preferred vendor. All other things being equal, or in fact skewed towards a country like China, they chose business with us, because they trusted our commitment to our word and law. Now, we are just a bully that they know as a senior partner will abuse the position if given, and he did it on the world stage for all to see for his ego.

When people and organizations only do what they have to, to survive, and not what they want to, to thrive, is when you've lost them, and you never win them back. Ever. International businesses don't dump billions into plants in places that exhibit arbitrary and capricious behavior that could bankrupt the effort on a whim. Do you really think any international businesses watching this clown show didn't look at their exposure? How about domestic businesses that export? They now have to consider pushing production OUTSIDE the US to limit exposure in a trade war and since when have our CEO's been bashful about that? Just look at history. A democratic India took the tack of heavy tariffs to foreign investment and forced partnership with FERA regulations to get companies to invest in their market, and communist China swung the doors open to free trade and investment, and look who developed first.

 

[Zimm]

However the Boston Tea Party was quite a pivotal moment in American history, that was all about tariffs I believe.

It was a mercantile system. We shipped out raw material, and Britain shipped back finished product. It was enforced, and not free market, and caused a literal shortage of money in the colonies as it was an insurmountable imbalance. The tea itself was foisted upon the colonies by the tea company that had a charter from the King. We didn't have a choice in the tea.


We were part of the empire and I don't believe by definition you can tariff yourself, so it would be just a tax. Semantics in a sence.

 

[FlyersFan76]

View attachment 7886197

Good old Monroney

Interesting. I thought I read that the engine was built is China.

 

[CRH]

Wow, is this the US politics thread now?

We all have our biases and will be blinkered to them no matter how we try. There are for and against with many political ideas, many business's use bully tactics but we keep going back for more, some use the more friendly approach, who know what's right as there is no real right or wrong answer, if it works for your situation, good, but it may not for someone else. Political discussion is all speculation, you can never compare one country to another or even one decade to another as there are so many factors involved. Ultimately, those who support Trump will support Trump, those who don't won't, it's the same with Labour and Conservative in UK. We still have people voting for a party just because their parents did and have no clue what the politicians stand for and how it would affect them if they were in power.

This is a discussion on INEOS Automotive and how it will be affected/if it will be affected by any US sanctions. INEOS is a global petrochemical company with about 31 manufacturing sites & 7 headquarters in the USA. They will employ a large number of highly skilled/paid people in America. The company is owned by a multi-billionaire who will therefore have influence in high places, far more than we can imagine.

This thread is now just political and is trying to put a downer on the product and a reason not to get involved with it and why my first comment was so sarcastic. It's all speculation until it happens, the argument is it's only a discussion doesn't work without the politics.

 

[ADVAW8S]

However the Boston Tea Party was quite a pivotal moment in American history, that was all about tariffs I believe.

And racism. Let's not forget that a bunch of white men dressed up as native Americans versus showing their faces.

 

[Zimm]

And racism. Let's not forget that a bunch of white men dressed up as native Americans versus showing their faces.

I thought it was more cultural appropriation. (tongue in cheek, but, dressing up as Indians to escape and defer blame, isn't the same as disparaging them)

 

[Tomdoc]

Gotta say you are way off base! Firstly I own a Gwagon and a Grenadier. Second, when I bought the Gren I was also looking at another G wagon. Third, I live close to and have many friends that live in one of the richest cities in Texas. It's a super small dense area where if you don't drive a 100k plus vehicle then you don't belong. The density of G wagons is kinda nuts. They all love the Grenadier and want to buy one. Sadly most back out after the test drive. Not due to the interior, they seem to love it. But rather the handling (steering).

Regardless, a Gwagon buyer is a prospective Grenadier buyer. Once or if Ineos improves their product they will be set firmly in the G wagon market.

May I ask why they think the steering is not for them? Is it just a lack of experience with a proper off-road recirculating ball system or naively wanting the pampered feeling they are used to from other wannabe off-roaders? I know it is a well-visited topic, but I cannot get my head around the fact that this is any sort of a deal-breaker. It is likely that they are correct, it is not for them - they really do not realise what this vehicle is for - sure it looks "cool" but it isn't for popping to the shops to get your nails done.

 

[mcdoogs]

May I ask why they think the steering is not for them? Is it just a lack of experience with a proper off-road recirculating ball system or naively wanting the pampered feeling they are used to from other wannabe off-roaders? I know it is a well-visited topic, but I cannot get my head around the fact that this is any sort of a deal-breaker. It is likely that they are correct, it is not for them - they really do not realise what this vehicle is for - sure it looks "cool" but it isn't for popping to the shops to get your nails done.

I think it's more that actual G-Wagen consumers aren't actually serious Grenadier shoppers. I mean let's be honest with ourselves, the interior styling, materials, fit and finish are in different leagues. Not to mention the average sale price being roughly $100k higher than a optioned out Grenadier. The data supports this, the first year the Grenadier is offered in the US the G-Wagen had it's best sales year ever.