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Trump announces 25% tariff on all imported vehicles!

I disagree completely. Most countries do not have the freedoms that Americans enjoy. Ask Brits or the Germans about what is happening to them if their government doesn't agree with what they post on social media....
You are totally right…
It is insane that we in Germany are not allowed to - for example - denial the German mass murder in WWII and use NAZI symbols. What a better world it would be if we could just do it…
(For safety reasons: IRONY OFF)
This is what is being reported here in the States.

I don’t know enough of the case law in the USA. But is insulting people a right because of the right for free speech?
 
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How much did it cost Apple to conform to the EU ruling to change their charging ports? To open up their app store? There are a lot of ways to close markets beyond simple tariffs.
This is not a good example; Apple has history for using non-standard ports and forcing their customers to pay the Apple Tax on new accessories - I know, I'm an Apple user. For them to complain is just the height of irony.

Capitalism can be very inefficient when it comes to "creative destruction" and basic greed; we did not need another bloody port and I resent every penny I have spent on cables, chargers, USB hubs and the like.

The French are past masters of limiting access to markets - at one point imported VCRs could only come though one customs office in the middle of nowhere, which was understaffed and worked to rule - brilliant, and at the time within the WTO rules.

Back in the inter-war years, UK road tax was an effective restraint on foreign car manufacturers as the RAC horsepower formula was used to calculated Road Fund Licence. It had the unfortunate side effect of forcing UK car development down the "long stroke, small bore" rabbit hole.
 
You are totally right…
It is insane that we in Germany are not allowed to - for example - denial the German mass murder in WWII and use NAZI symbols. What a better world it would be if we could just do it…
(For safety reasons: IRONY OFF)

I don’t know enough of the case law in the USA. But is insulting people a right because of the right for free speech?
Yes it is. Insult all you want. There are libel and slander laws so you need to be factual. For example, you could call me a fucking ugly old white man but you couldn’t call me a fucking ugly old white pedophile. The first is a matter of opinion while the second is factually inaccurate and defamatory. That said, it would largely be a civil matter and I would have to hire an attorney and file a civil suit. At federal or local prosecutor would never file those criminal charges and the police would never show up at your door. If found guilty the penalty would be financial and not jail.

At least that is my understand but I went to business school and not law school. The lawyers here can correct me.
 
A common approach here is to slander by association. That way you don't name names directly and avoid legal prosecution. An example would be "pimp handlers" which was used a lot recently. Who is exactly being slandered there?

At one time opinion had to be represented as opinion. Now it's stated as if a fact. "You are an ugly old white man" vs "I think you are an ugly old white man". Other than "white man" the rest is opinion but rarely stated as such because retaliatory legal action is expensive, time consuming , and expensive. Slanderers count on that.
 
Back in the inter-war years, UK road tax was an effective restraint on foreign car manufacturers as the RAC horsepower formula was used to calculated Road Fund Licence. It had the unfortunate side effect of forcing UK car development down the "long stroke, small bore" rabbit hole.

Wait! What's wrong with an undersquare bore? Even my sole V8 has been "stroked" though technically still oversquare. How could anyone argue with the great undersquare engines like the Cummins 5.9 and (dare I say it) the B57/B58?
 
A common approach here is to slander by association. That way you don't name names directly and avoid legal prosecution. An example would be "pimp handlers" which was used a lot recently. Who is exactly being slandered there?

At one time opinion had to be represented as opinion. Now it's stated as if a fact. "You are an ugly old white man" vs "I think you are an ugly old white man". Other than "white man" the rest is opinion but rarely stated as such because retaliatory legal action is expensive, time consuming , and expensive. Slanderers count on that.
True but the real test of free speech is having to hear and read things you disagree with. There are parts of this world that are sweeping this aside in a rush to make life more comfortable for some. I fear this to be a very dark path. Reread 1984 as a reminder that if you can control language then you can control thought and society.

I am prepared to accept some casualties in the name of preserving our 1st amendment right to free speech. The greater good is served by allowing the speech even if that harms some individuals or groups. There are remedies for those that are in fact harmed unjustly.
 
This is not a good example; Apple has history for using non-standard ports and forcing their customers to pay the Apple Tax on new accessories - I know, I'm an Apple user. For them to complain is just the height of irony.

Capitalism can be very inefficient when it comes to "creative destruction" and basic greed; we did not need another bloody port and I resent every penny I have spent on cables, chargers, USB hubs and the like.
Actually it is a good example because it is the example of a free market. Apple can do what they want and if enough customers don't like it, they will change their practices. It's not up to some government to dictate how they must conduct business. Don't get me wrong, I'm fully in the "Apple ecosystem" and it sucked keeping up with cables and the like, but that was my choice because he benefits outweighed the costs.

Can't have it both ways - be a free market person when it comes to tariffs imposed by the US and think they EU rulings against Apple are OK. I've said it before, there are many barriers to entering a market, be it a tariff, a local government subsidy of a company giving them a competitive advantage or any other way to close business out of your market. They should be reciprocal for imports and exports.
 
True but the real test of free speech is having to hear and read things you disagree with. There are parts of this world that are sweeping this aside in a rush to make life more comfortable for some. I fear this to be a very dark path. Reread 1984 as a reminder that if you can control language then you can control thought and society.

I am prepared to accept some casualties in the name of preserving our 1st amendment right to free speech. The greater good is served by allowing the speech even if that harms some individuals or groups. There are remedies for those that are in fact harmed unjustly.

In essence I agree. Words have power if they are mistaken for truth. Unfortunately truth - and thus freedom - tends to be defined by whomever is in power even when it is mere opinion or, perhaps, an uneducated and incomplete truth (still opinion). Unbiased implementation of law and the recognition of rights requires objectivity which is nigh on impossible without diligence and a frank examination of the judging party's motivation otherwise prejudice supplants blind justice. OJ got off for a reason but may have been guilty. I accept that verdict as the process employed protects the innocent but occasionally lets the guilty go free. Being sentenced without the opportunity to face your accuser in a court of law is the opposite. Only one side gets a word in. That is not truth and is tantamount to slander.

You can easily tell which power is attempting fairness and impartiality as they leave it to the courts to decide. Though messy and imperfect it's the best option we have. If they act unilaterally and avoid weighing their actions on the scales of justice then you should be wary... especially if you agree with them.
 
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Actually it is a good example because it is the example of a free market. Apple can do what they want and if enough customers don't like it, they will change their practices. It's not up to some government to dictate how they must conduct business. Don't get me wrong, I'm fully in the "Apple ecosystem" and it sucked keeping up with cables and the like, but that was my choice because he benefits outweighed the costs.

Can't have it both ways - be a free market person when it comes to tariffs imposed by the US and think they EU rulings against Apple are OK. I've said it before, there are many barriers to entering a market, be it a tariff, a local government subsidy of a company giving them a competitive advantage or any other way to close business out of your market. They should be reciprocal for imports and exports.
This is where we disagree; I am not into unfettered free markets as they are not "efficient" in the economic sense as there is no perfect knowledge, major imbalances of economic power, significant shortfalls in accurate pricing of resources and no recognition and pricing of the degradation of public assets/amenities.

Supply and demand does some things well and some things really badly, leading to disasters like Victorian Britain's dark satanic mills, the USA's rust belt, the dust bowl, industrial diseases like asbestosis, silicosis, Minamata disease and a thousand and one other lousy outcomes like Bhopal, rivers poisoned with chicken shit and polluters bribing their way out of paying for the damage they created. The pursuit of pure profit cuts corners, as people are easily corrupted. (I'm a compliance officer these days; give someone a bonus scheme and the shortcuts are identified and exploited before the ink has dried. Pushing the rules in motor racing has a limited set of outcomes; doing the same with an oil refinery, drilling rig, nuclear power station, financial brokerage house or explosives factory raises the jeopardy many-fold).

Apple were deliberately taking the piss out of their customers for financial gain, not an improved customer experience. Put the customer first and the conflict does not arise; happy customers would have protected the company from the legislators; this was an instance where there was a balance adjustment for an imbalance of economic power.

The US has a mass of old legislation usually framed as "Anti-Trust" laws around the improper use of economic power, where it was recognised that the concentration of money and power with a few industrialists was not a good thing for public good and economic growth. A similar adjustment may be overdue now; the big economic question between capitalism and a planned economy is settled, the argument now is how free can markets be without killing us all by accident.

You cannot eat money, so the pursuit of it without reference to the world around it is stupid.
 
Yes, but if you need a gun for self defense........can you really call it a freedom.
Absolutely…it’s not about needing a gun for self defense. It’s about having the proper tool for the job needed. You are insinuating that a gun is used in all cases of self defense in the US.

Defensive Gun Uses
 
I will be very interested in seeing whether BMW decides to build the B58 in the United States. Were this to happen, it might tilt Ineos to build Grenadiers here.
BMW has been in the States now for a long time and Ineos now with their oil wells, who would know what Ronny thinks...does he follow soocer?:D
 
BMW has been in the States now for a long time and Ineos now with their oil wells, who would know what Ronny thinks...does he follow soocer?:D
But BMW Doesn't build the motors here; they assemble vehicles here... At first thought I was going to suggest the LS3 that the Magna interns put in a Grenadier, but after a quick Google-ing found that GM doesn't even build the LS motor in the US :P :P
 
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