steering as reported is silly

[Dokatd]

It was designed as an 80% offroad car. If you drive 80% onroad you may have bought the wrong kind. It's like a small comfortable Unimog.

Not specifically arguing with you, but how do you square that with the models built and sold with what amounts to highway tires. And no lockers etc.

I know what I bought and I'm very pleased with it now that I have changed a few things. What I can most certainly say is that the Grenadier is nowhere near a small comfortable Unimog. But I understand the point you were trying to make, I disagree but understand for sure.

 

[Michael_in_Baja]

Mine srive

August 2023 build here... It drives like a truck.

Mine drives like my 1991 F250 460 4x4 with a bit more torque and turning radius.

Perfect.

 

[Tazzieman]

Not specifically arguing with you, but how do you square that with the models built and sold with what amounts to highway tires. And no lockers etc.

I know what I bought and I'm very pleased with it now that I have changed a few things. What I can most certainly say is that the Grenadier is nowhere near a small comfortable Unimog. But I understand the point you were trying to make, I disagree but understand for sure.

I think a few buyers were looking for the unicorn 4x4.
It's a bit like finding a sports car that is fast, reliable and cheap.

 

[Dokatd]

I think a few buyers were looking for the unicorn 4x4.
It's a bit like finding a sports car that is fast, reliable and cheap.

Well it's not a bad attempt at a Unicorn 4x4.

 

[DaveB]

Not specifically arguing with you, but how do you square that with the models built and sold with what amounts to highway tires. And no lockers etc.

I know what I bought and I'm very pleased with it now that I have changed a few things. What I can most certainly say is that the Grenadier is nowhere near a small comfortable Unimog. But I understand the point you were trying to make, I disagree but understand for sure.

Personally I think if you buy the ones with road tyres and no lockers etc then it is highly likely that you are buying a short term tyoy or it is a second or third vehicle.
If that is the case then enjoy it.
Many of the early adopters are buying a long term vehicle that will be used to travel, overland or tow on a wide variety of surfaces and locations.

In the last 12 months there seems to have been a massive shift in the types of people buying them and their uses.

Maybe this is lucky or the numbers would have been even lower.

It is what it is, or what you make of it.

Either way enjoy it.

 

[trobex]

I think a few buyers were looking for the unicorn 4x4.
It's a bit like finding a sports car that is fast, reliable and cheap.

Is that not what BYD is trying to tell us!!

 

[Tazzieman]

Is that not what BYD is trying to tell us!!

So far it has proven itself to be cheap.

 

[Grenadian]

Rather than saying there is a problem with the steering,
it would be more correct to say that "the steering method is different" from other vehicles.

 

[Tazzieman]

Rather than saying there is a problem with the steering,
it would be more correct to say that "the steering method is different" from other vehicles.

As is the sporty footwell brace in RHD models

 

[trobex]

As is the sporty footwell brace in RHD models

A brace is what you need AFTER driving any RHD model!!!

 

[Dokatd]

As is the sporty footwell brace in RHD models

Don't you mean the precision engineered by Magna brace. You better appreciate the effort put into its placement and size or just sell the vehicle.

Rather than saying there is a problem with the steering,
it would be more correct to say that "the steering method is different" from other vehicles.

The issue is that some, maybe not all, grenadiers display a huge departure from normal steering standards. In my case it made the truck exhausting to drive and frankly a chore. So much so that I was ready to turn it back in to the dealership.

My trucks steering was so stiff that going down the highway it would "lock in" the steering and dart off at any second. In even my biggest military truck the steering will always self center and find its home driving straightish. But the Grenadier, my Grenadier would shoot off the side of the road if allowed to do its own thing after hitting the smallest defect in the road.

Ultimately there is no doubt that stiction is a real thing and that is what many people are wearing down after 30k km. I'm sure the steering stabilizer settles a fair bit. But I was not willing to push through to that as I wanted to drive and fully enjoy my truck from day one. Now I have a setup that I can dial up or down from stock feel to suit me.

Was there something wrong with a batch of trucks that came to the USA, maybe. Was mine part of that batch, possibly. Did mine drive just like everyone else's, possibly. Am I qualified to state the steering feels wrong based on a massive wealth of experience both on and off-road; that one I can answer and the answer is most certainly yes.

Personally I think if you buy the ones with road tyres and no lockers etc then it is highly likely that you are buying a short term tyoy or it is a second or third vehicle.
If that is the case then enjoy it.
Many of the early adopters are buying a long term vehicle that will be used to travel, overland or tow on a wide variety of surfaces and locations.

In the last 12 months there seems to have been a massive shift in the types of people buying them and their uses.

Maybe this is lucky or the numbers would have been even lower.

It is what it is, or what you make of it.

Either way enjoy it.

There is no way Ineos could justify the continuation of production if these were not being bought for the occasional soccer mom. There is a reason Land Rover sold out so hard. There just aren't enough people in the world to support a vehicle that is only designed to go off-road at this price point.

 

[LWA55DAL]

Just rolled 8k MIles on the clock and there is no question that the steering stabilizer takes some time to break-in. I saw the most noticeable change around 4-5k Miles. I agree with the other posts that INEOS designed the vehicle for offroad use and it was not designed to drive like an IFS SUV. The analogy I use when describing the streering is “a 1989 Range Rover”. I swap back and forth between a ‘22 Ram 2500 and the Grenadier a couple times a week. The Ram has 53k miles on it and honestly - the steering on the 2 is VERY similar. The Grenadier is a little “tighter” and I actually prefer it to the Ram. It does not “self center” as well as the Ram, but it does it a lot better than the day I drove it home.

One thing I have noticed in the Forum and on my personal vehicles is that the alignment is off upon delivery. I attribute this to the shipping companies that are cranking down the vehicles during transportation from the Port to the dealership. Mine was off pretty bad upon delivery, but once I had it aligned to the factory spec it made a big difference.

 

[Tom109]

@Dokatd - given your vehicle history I’m simply left scratching my head.

I come from coil-sprung and leaf-sprung LR’s. My personal favorite being a ‘96 D1 - lifted, with bigger tires and swaybars removed. My wife loved that vehicle. It was our perfect all-rounder, until the Gren showed up.

 

[Dokatd]

Just rolled 8k MIles on the clock and there is no question that the steering stabilizer takes some time to break-in. I saw the most noticeable change around 4-5k Miles. I agree with the other posts that INEOS designed the vehicle for offroad use and it was not designed to drive like an IFS SUV. The analogy I use when describing the streering is “a 1989 Range Rover”. I swap back and forth between a ‘22 Ram 2500 and the Grenadier a couple times a week. The Ram has 53k miles on it and honestly - the steering on the 2 is VERY similar. The Grenadier is a little “tighter” and I actually prefer it to the Ram. It does not “self center” as well as the Ram, but it does it a lot better than the day I drove it home.

One thing I have noticed in the Forum and on my personal vehicles is that the alignment is off upon delivery. I attribute this to the shipping companies that are cranking down the vehicles during transportation from the Port to the dealership. Mine was off pretty bad upon delivery, but once I had it aligned to the factory spec it made a big difference.

This is a good post.

For clarification, my Gwagon has much heavier steering than my Grenadier ever did. I won't be heard complaining about steering stiffness. I wheeled manual steering trucks for over a decade. And that was rock crawling in some of the biggest stuff the Southwest has to offer. Think competition rock crawling.

The issue with the Grenadier is 100% self centering. As you said above the Grenadier drives enough like a classic rangie or a solid axle Ram truck except in one aspect. The Rangie and Ram self center driving down the road. The Grenadier does not. At least certainly not direct from the factory.

So always look at these threads, complaints or commentary from the community as a complaint about the steering not self centering enough at low or high speeds.

 

[Dokatd]

@Dokatd - given your vehicle history I’m simply left scratching my head.

I come from coil-sprung and leaf-sprung LR’s. My personal favorite being a ‘96 D1 - lifted, with bigger tires and swaybars removed. My wife loved that vehicle. It was our perfect all-rounder, until the Gren showed up.

Hah, you and me both sometimes. This is the view from my Grenadier as I just pulled into my driveway.

I do feel like I'm taking crazy pills. My D-90 was on 37" TSL's with custom hummer bead locks I fabricated in house. Custom roll cage, sliders etc with sewer cap diff guards, the original hinged radius arm, lengthened trailing arms and lockers front and rear. Certainly no sway bars, non factory shocks and shock mounts.

Heck I was part of the second Land Rover Twist off back in the day and placed 2nd as I recall in the off-road portion.

The pic below is me from an earlier version of my D90. I've been in multiple off-road magazines including European ones. Even hosted a big group of Land Rover guys from Ireland that came to see what Rovers could do in the rocks. Though I drove a Unimog at that time.

 

[Grenadian]

Don't you mean the precision engineered by Magna brace. You better appreciate the effort put into its placement and size or just sell the vehicle.



The issue is that some, maybe not all, grenadiers display a huge departure from normal steering standards. In my case it made the truck exhausting to drive and frankly a chore. So much so that I was ready to turn it back in to the dealership.

My trucks steering was so stiff that going down the highway it would "lock in" the steering and dart off at any second. In even my biggest military truck the steering will always self center and find its home driving straightish. But the Grenadier, my Grenadier would shoot off the side of the road if allowed to do its own thing after hitting the smallest defect in the road.

Ultimately there is no doubt that stiction is a real thing and that is what many people are wearing down after 30k km. I'm sure the steering stabilizer settles a fair bit. But I was not willing to push through to that as I wanted to drive and fully enjoy my truck from day one. Now I have a setup that I can dial up or down from stock feel to suit me.

Was there something wrong with a batch of trucks that came to the USA, maybe. Was mine part of that batch, possibly. Did mine drive just like everyone else's, possibly. Am I qualified to state the steering feels wrong based on a massive wealth of experience both on and off-road; that one I can answer and the answer is most certainly yes.


There is no way Ineos could justify the continuation of production if these were not being bought for the occasional soccer mom. There is a reason Land Rover sold out so hard. There just aren't enough people in the world to support a vehicle that is only designed to go off-road at this price point.

If the standard error of quality in mass-produced vehicles is severe, isn't that a big problem, considering that it is the first brand?

 

[Max]

My trucks steering was so stiff that going down the highway it would "lock in" the steering and dart off at any second. In even my biggest military truck the steering will always self center and find its home driving straightish. But the Grenadier, my Grenadier would shoot off the side of the road if allowed to do its own thing after hitting the smallest defect in the road.

Who's waiting for a recall.

 

[Dokatd]

If the standard error of quality in mass-produced vehicles is severe, isn't that a big problem, considering that it is the first brand?

I think the Grenadier has a very sympathetic fan base. I gather a decent portion of buyers will simply love it too much despite its flaws big or small. And I am very much likely one of them. I can't say it has locked in a place in my heart and soul like several of my other vehicles have yet, but I'm willing to give it a chance.

One thing that's important to me, clearly, is that people on the fence about these trucks due to their quirky, at a minimum, steering have options. I know so many people here locally in Dallas that wanted one but backed out when they felt the steering. Are these people who will take it off-roading or on a grand adventure, not a chance in hell. Are these the people that will subsidize our dream of seeing this brand and truck take off and be available in the future, your damn right they are.

Some on this forum seem to not grasp that we need the suburban soccer moms and the Patagonia wearing office workers to buy enough of these things to keep the dream alive. Sadly even then I can't imagine how Ineos will keep these things relevant over the years as the body doesn't lend it self to updates in style. The Gwagon may have been a one off in the forever a classic new or old catagory.

 

[parb]

There is a decent amount of selection bias in this community. Myself included.

 

[Dokatd]

There is a decent amount of selection bias in this community. Myself included.

No doubt. I just wish a hand full of members here would accept that most of us are here because of that and we will often die on this hill along side them regardless of if we have the same views about software or steering or what the hell ever.