Steering and Poor Stability

[[ Adam ]]

Im sure my anecdotal theory is about to be blasted and debunked, but if I may...

My steering wheel was off to the LEFT from factory, I had an alignment done (due to statements on here regarding many out of spec vehicles from factory) as well as my steering wheel angle corrected. And though it is better, there is still the slightest LEFTward orientation while driving.

I am noticing that several of those located in RHD vehicles (Left lane travel countries) are experiencing slight RIGHTward orientation of their steering wheel.

I am curious how much the crown of the road and the recirculating ball steering system are playing into this? Meaning that the slight bit of play in the steering due to its lack of precision and the slight pitch of the road from crown (Coupled with this red indicator on the wheel) might cause us to notice the wheel being "off"

I tested this by doing two thing:
-On a straight length of road with no oncoming traffic I went into the opposite lane traveling at about 50 mph, and boom, I was slightly to the RIGHT
-Went to a large open parking lot, and though I couldn't achieve high speed, seemed to be able to go dead straight with red line at 12 o'clock

Thoughts...?

Crowning and road design can be incredibly variable depending on geography, local resources and weather.

This could account for some of the variability in reporting, but I have to say I really don't notice any odd tracking - and we do have crowned roads here in the DC Metro area.

 

[Skydance]

All roads can affect the steering. Even winds can. But generally on a good summers day, no wind, open road motorway, my steering sits a 5 degree right but tracks straight.

Does any know why the Grenadier has a two spoke steering wheel? I sometimes when reversing don’t know which way up it is in the dark.

 

[[ Adam ]]

No idea on why they went with a TWO spoke design, but I sure wish I could disable the microphone button.

As a left-handed driver, I seem to be hitting that button all the time when making large turns.

 

[terdrocket]

No idea on why they went with a TWO spoke design, but I sure wish I could disable the microphone button.

As a left-handed driver, I seem to be hitting that button all the time when making large turns.

haha same here

 

[101turbogas]

I'm in the UK. My vehicle is four months old. I was expecting to have to get used to the steering system from all the reviews. The stability at anything over 60mph feels unstable, but I thought it was just a characteristic and got used to driving slower, especially on motorways. I've got a loan car as mine is in for the software update and a few other things. The loaner stability is much better than mine, and it felt okay even at 80 miles per hour. My steering feels to have a bit more play when turning, and the loan car feels much more directional and safe. I'm waiting for the dealer to return, but I am worried that they will say nothing is wrong, and I have to live with it. Any thought on possible problems?

Hi Bobbyray, mine was exactly the same. At 1000miles it did get better due to all the joints loosening slightly. But I was still not happy with stability at speed and lack of steering returning to center. I removed the steering damper and what a difference. The OE damper is far to heavy duty for a road car. It looks like it came off a heavy tractor.. With the damper removed the steering is lighter and returns to center. It is also much more stable at speed.
I was concerned that without a damper fitted it may get into a wobble at speed. So I did some searching and found that you can get a damper from OME that fits and works far better. It just needs an adapter bush making for one end. I have now done another 1000miles with the OME damper fitted.
I was at the point of returning the car to the dealer as I found it dangerous to drive at speed and my wife refused to drive it again. But now I love it and am really glad I stuck with it and fitted the OME damper. it is a totally different car now and even my wife enjoys driving it. Its now the way INEOS should have delivered them to customers.

 

[NoMoTaco]

you can get a damper from OME that fits and works far better. It just needs an adapter bush making for one end.

Any chance you could elaborate on what this adapter bush(ing?) is, Where it was sourced, etc?

Pictures would also be super helpful and appreciated! Thanks

 

[DaveB]

Im sure my anecdotal theory is about to be blasted and debunked, but if I may...

My steering wheel was off to the LEFT from factory, I had an alignment done (due to statements on here regarding many out of spec vehicles from factory) as well as my steering wheel angle corrected. And though it is better, there is still the slightest LEFTward orientation while driving.

I am noticing that several of those located in RHD vehicles (Left lane travel countries) are experiencing slight RIGHTward orientation of their steering wheel.

I am curious how much the crown of the road and the recirculating ball steering system are playing into this? Meaning that the slight bit of play in the steering due to its lack of precision and the slight pitch of the road from crown (Coupled with this red indicator on the wheel) might cause us to notice the wheel being "off"

I tested this by doing two thing:
-On a straight length of road with no oncoming traffic I went into the opposite lane traveling at about 50 mph, and boom, I was slightly to the RIGHT
-Went to a large open parking lot, and though I couldn't achieve high speed, seemed to be able to go dead straight with red line at 12 o'clock

Thoughts...?

Stop looking at the red line

 

[DaveB]

Exactly the same issue here!

That's how recirculating ball steering works.
There is inherently a very small gap between the balls and as you turn this gap has to be taken up as the balls push each other around.
Then they have to work the various gears and linkages.
What does it matter if you have an inch of movement in the steering when you are parked?

 

[[ Adam ]]

Hi Bobbyray, mine was exactly the same. At 1000miles it did get better due to all the joints loosening slightly. But I was still not happy with stability at speed and lack of steering returning to center. I removed the steering damper and what a difference. The OE damper is far to heavy duty for a road car. It looks like it came off a heavy tractor.. With the damper removed the steering is lighter and returns to center. It is also much more stable at speed.
I was concerned that without a damper fitted it may get into a wobble at speed. So I did some searching and found that you can get a damper from OME that fits and works far better. It just needs an adapter bush making for one end. I have now done another 1000miles with the OME damper fitted.
I was at the point of returning the car to the dealer as I found it dangerous to drive at speed and my wife refused to drive it again. But now I love it and am really glad I stuck with it and fitted the OME damper. it is a totally different car now and even my wife enjoys driving it. Its now the way INEOS should have delivered them to customers.

At any point have you had your alignment checked?

 

[Norb-TX]

There was mention of bad motor mounts, my car vibrates when stopped in gear with brakes on, I don't mind it as it reminds me of the European cars I grew up on, but its one of the causes of power induced pull on the steering. How many have the vibrating engine and the poor steering? Just thinking out loud here.

 

[NoMoTaco]

but its one of the causes of power induced pull on the steering. How many have the vibrating engine and the poor steering? Just thinking out loud here.

Forgive my ignorance...how does that work against the steering if its only experienced at idle?

 

[Skydance]

There was mention of bad motor mounts, my car vibrates when stopped in gear with brakes on, I don't mind it as it reminds me of the European cars I grew up on, but its one of the causes of power induced pull on the steering. How many have the vibrating engine and the poor steering? Just thinking out loud here.

I’ve heard many people having the harsh vibrating during idle, between 1800 rpm and 2000 rpm and also when going up really steep hills under load. During idle, it reminds me sitting in an old bus. Mines a diesel and at idle, it vibrates the passenger side glove box which is very annoying. This is the biggest downside of this truck, alongside the footrest and steering lock to lock.

Did 3 hours driving and I’m shattered. I have a Suzuki Jimny (albeit it is slow), it has a much smoother relaxed ride and much quieter NVH. I’ve been adding felt pads and rubber pads on the dashboard to make improvements as I really want to keep the car. But in the end, the vibration is too strong for the felt pads. Been told on this forum it is due to gearing.

 

[Catpaw4x4]

That's how recirculating ball steering works.
There is inherently a very small gap between the balls and as you turn this gap has to be taken up as the balls push each other around.
Then they have to work the various gears and linkages.
What does it matter if you have an inch of movement in the steering when you are parked?



View attachment 7847035View attachment 7847036

It's an inch of moment (movement with no response) when at speed. I have no worry when at stop. My 96 Discovery has some movement. The G is in excess of the Discovery. Do appreciate the diagram and explanation though - always interested in learning and this Forum is great for that opportunity! Cheers!

 

[DaveB]

It's an inch of moment (movement with no response) when at speed. I have no worry when at stop. My 96 Discovery has some movement. The G is in excess of the Discovery. Do appreciate the diagram and explanation though - always interested in learning and this Forum is great for that opportunity! Cheers!

Like many modern vehicles my previous Mercedes had variable assist power steering.
This meant that at different speeds the same movement of the steering wheel would have completely different effect on the amount of movement of the wheels.
At parking speeds a very small turn of the wheel would have a huge impact on the amount the vehicle turned.
In fact I mentioned on here previously that on my first few drives i almost crashed it while parking because it turned way further than I had intended.
At highway speeds the same wheel movement would have very little turning effect.
I recall you could rock the steering wheel at least 2 -3 inches in each direction with no impact at all. (I didn't measure it just trying to remember)
I don't think this is possible or practical in the Grenadier.

 

[Norb-TX]

Forgive my ignorance...how does that work against the steering if its only experienced at idle?

They are both symptoms of bad motor mounts.

 

[DenisM]

I’ve heard many people having the harsh vibrating during idle, between 1800 rpm and 2000 rpm and also when going up really steep hills under load. During idle, it reminds me sitting in an old bus. Mines a diesel and at idle, it vibrates the passenger side glove box which is very annoying. This is the biggest downside of this truck, alongside the footrest and steering lock to lock.

Did 3 hours driving and I’m shattered. I have a Suzuki Jimny (albeit it is slow), it has a much smoother relaxed ride and much quieter NVH. I’ve been adding felt pads and rubber pads on the dashboard to make improvements as I really want to keep the car. But in the end, the vibration is too strong for the felt pads. Been told on this forum it is due to gearing.

This will be of no comfort. However I offer it to reinforce the fact that a lazy mechanic's excuse " they're all like that" doesn't hold up:
I have a Trialmaster diesel, approx 7,000km on the odo since late July 2023, early VIN (20××).
Engine vibration is minimal either cold or warmed up.... There is an occasional short-lived "sympathetic resonance" vibration somewhere under the vehicle as it climbs through the gears ...I suspect, as reported elsewhere it's one of the under body protection panels. It's neither annoying nor frequent. It is not evident when cruising in 7th or 8th gear at 100-110km
That being said:
Your glovebox vibration is not normal.
Almost all independent road tests reported on this forum, favourable or otherwise, have commented that the cabin was remarkably free of vibrations and sqeaks....
As noted elsewhere, I'd demand to get the engine mounts checked in the first instance.
Also get the driveline checked for balance/integrity... (loose fasteners/missing balance weights)

 

[DaBull]

Hi Bobbyray, mine was exactly the same. At 1000miles it did get better due to all the joints loosening slightly. But I was still not happy with stability at speed and lack of steering returning to center. I removed the steering damper and what a difference. The OE damper is far to heavy duty for a road car. It looks like it came off a heavy tractor.. With the damper removed the steering is lighter and returns to center. It is also much more stable at speed.
I was concerned that without a damper fitted it may get into a wobble at speed. So I did some searching and found that you can get a damper from OME that fits and works far better. It just needs an adapter bush making for one end. I have now done another 1000miles with the OME damper fitted.
I was at the point of returning the car to the dealer as I found it dangerous to drive at speed and my wife refused to drive it again. But now I love it and am really glad I stuck with it and fitted the OME damper. it is a totally different car now and even my wife enjoys driving it. Its now the way INEOS should have delivered them to customers.

Hi 101turbogas,
Yes, please provide info on the OME Damper.
As has also been posted, Road Master makes an Exact Return To Center stabilizer/damper that is patented. They will provide the first Grenadier owner with a free one from my understanding. They are located just north of Portland Oregon in Vancover Washington at:
Road Master
6110 NE 127th Ave.
Vancouver, WA 98682

Just Reach out to Abraham Servellon at Road Master to set up a time to bring your Grenadier over.
Make sure to post your ride results afterwards:

aservellon@roadmasterinc.com
Abraham Servellon
Exact Center Production Manager
ROADMASTER Inc.
6110 NE 127th Ave.
Vancouver, WA 98682
+1 (800) 669-9690 [ext 208]
roadmasterinc.com

 

[Mountain4x4]

Keep in mind the motor mounts were re-designed for durability and have less isolation. Motor mount failure was something Ineos wanted to prevent, because it sucks. BMW motor mounts are highly failure prone so they went with a less cushy solution.

 

[angstorms]

Has anyone tried Fox Stabilizer, they one for Ineos at Agile Offroad now, https://agileoffroad.com/product/ineos-grenadier-fox-steering-stabilizer-by-agile-offroad/. Looks like it based on this one https://www.ridefox.com/product.php?m=truck&partnumber=985-02-127

 

[DrewG]

I have just ticked over 15000 kms, on all kinds of tracks to highways. We have just had the Fieldmaster serviced including, critically, a wheel balance. It is like a different car, it now steers and handles beautifully including to speeds of 120km. Chalk and cheese.

It now drives like a dream, not like I want to list it on Carsales!