Steering and Poor Stability

[255/85]

Each of the Grenadier's driveshafts has two CV joints in it. Jeep has been using this design for a long time now.

But not in any Jeep I've owned. I see the value but I wonder (along with others here) why the double cardan at the swivels?

 

[Zimm]

But not in any Jeep I've owned. I see the value but I wonder (along with others here) why the double cardan at the swivels?

Yea, that was one of those design choices I was surprised to see, but didn't figure it made any real difference. Perhaps that's the reason they set the steering stops so far out.

 

[pmatusov]

But not in any Jeep I've owned. I see the value but I wonder (along with others here) why the double cardan at the swivels?

Not sure - you mean CV joint in the axleshafts? I don't think I ever saw double-cardan joint in the swivels.
CVs at both ends of the driveshafts are awesome. Maybe they need a bit more maintenance or care, but they [should] solve all driveline vibration issues.
About the Jeeps - JK-JL Wranglers have them. I've seen several torn apart on Rubicon in two days - but likely due to drivers being very throttle-happy and using giant tires without diff gearing change.

 

[255/85]

Yea, that was one of those design choices I was surprised to see, but didn't figure it made any real difference. Perhaps that's the reason they set the steering stops so far out.

My thinking as well.

Not sure - you mean CV joint in the axleshafts? I don't think I ever saw double-cardan joint in the swivels.

Yes, in the front axleshafts. I saw them in the demo vehicles but I've never checked again to see if there was a change for production models.

CVs at both ends of the driveshafts are awesome. Maybe they need a bit more maintenance or care, but they [should] solve all driveline vibration issues.

All the years of sweating driveline angles now straight out the window

 

[pmatusov]

All the years of sweating driveline angles now straight out the window

Honestly, I don't know why Tom Woods still offers double-cardan driveshafts. I'd still buy one if I didn't have a CV option - still may buy one for the LWB Classic to replace the garbage single-U-jointed rear driveshaft from BPUtah, but just for the lack of a proper CV option.
Check this: https://4xshaft.com/collections/jeep-wrangler-jl-products
"Our model solves all your torn CV boot problems and includes the required output yoke for the transfer case at no extra cost. "
Torn CV boot problems? One shouldn't be using driveshafts as rock sliders.

 

[Zimm]

Torn CV boot problems? One shouldn't be using driveshafts as rock sliders.

Contact happens.

 

[255/85]

Honestly, I don't know why Tom Woods still offers double-cardan driveshafts. I'd still buy one if I didn't have a CV option - still may buy one for the LWB Classic to replace the garbage single-U-jointed rear driveshaft from BPUtah, but just for the lack of a proper CV option.
Check this: https://4xshaft.com/collections/jeep-wrangler-jl-products
"Our model solves all your torn CV boot problems and includes the required output yoke for the transfer case at no extra cost. "
Torn CV boot problems? One shouldn't be using driveshafts as rock sliders.

I've had Woods do a few driveshafts in years past before he became a big name. Still have a 3.5" heavy wall long spline between a 205 and a 14 bolt. Definitely quality equipment. Back then he'd pick up the phone himself.

I'm looking forward to having the CVs in the Grenadier.

 

[Commodore]

I have woods driveshafts on my 1967 Bronco and they have been great.

 

[Cheshire cat]

I haven’t got into this thread to any detail as yet. I need to study the setup further but, in the meantime. Have any of these components as fitted failed as yet?

 

[DenisM]

I haven’t got into this thread to any detail as yet. I need to study the setup further but, in the meantime. Have any of these components as fitted failed as yet?

A front driveline CV failed on a member's vehicle in Tasmania earlier this year (February)... https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/front-drive-shaft-broken.12414695/
Rare occurrence....

 

[Cheshire cat]

For those struggling a bit with this thread. The attached link is brilliant.

View: https://youtu.be/YgNZfIR-8Ng?si=BCJDsekrDDEX73r8

 

[DaBull]

For those struggling a bit with this thread. The attached link is brilliant.

View: https://youtu.be/YgNZfIR-8Ng?si=BCJDsekrDDEX73r8

Hi Cheshire Cat, Thanks for posting this incredible video. Extremely informative!
DaBull

 

[NQ94]

Excellent video explaining drive shafts and basic universal joint operation. For the technically interested we could continue and surmise Ineos' choice of a high angle double cardan joint over the more commonly rzeppa cv joint used in most live axle permanent 4x4 applications. One reason the video explains.
Should rename the post "Steering, vibration and poor stability" as the thread covers more than steering and stability.

 

[bodhizaffa]

Hi @Znarfgh I noticed exactly this difference when I switched from my Trialmaster to a newer Fieldmaster with road tires. With this vehicle, I could let go of the steering wheel even when driving straight ahead for a long time without the vehicle pulling to one side. Especially when I switched back to my Trialmaster, the difference was clearly noticeable. So there are differences from vehicle to vehicle. I hope neither is within tolerance. But I will have it checked again.

I had the same experience. I've had loaners on two occasions and they've both handled significantly different (better) than mine.

 

[bodhizaffa]

do you find your steering heavy in the centre Dave, at low/zero speed?

I do. Mine is the exact same - very very heavy at low speeds. Im in a loaner currently and it's much lighter at low speeds. Did you ever find a fix?

 

[Skydance]

I do. Mine is the exact same - very very heavy at low speeds. Im in a loaner currently and it's much lighter at low speeds. Did you ever find a fix?

You will find the loaner/courtesy cars have the tyres pump well into low 40 psi when on the door jam, it say 36psi which is the recommended tyre pressure. The difference is in the pressure and type of tyres.

 

[bodhizaffa]

You will find the loaner/courtesy cars have the tyres pump well into low 40 psi when on the door jam, it say 36psi which is the recommended tyre pressure. The difference is in the pressure and type of tyres.

The loaner tires had the exact same PSI as my car.... cold at 38. The dealer replaced all of my wheels/tires from a loaner and guess what?!?!? - the car finally drives straight. As an aside, the problem wheels had weights slathered all over them. The new set has very minimal weighting. The continued commentary that some of these cars are handling very poorly simply because of improper tire pressure is a bit off base to those who have experienced significant pulling etc.

 

[Tom109]

The loaner tires had the exact same PSI as my car.... cold at 38. The dealer replaced all of my wheels/tires from a loaner and guess what?!?!? - the car finally drives straight. As an aside, the problem wheels had weights slathered all over them. The new set has very minimal weighting. The continued commentary that some of these cars are handling very poorly simply because of improper tire pressure is a bit off base to those who have experienced significant pulling etc.

Glad you got this worked out.

 

[[ Adam ]]

The loaner tires had the exact same PSI as my car.... cold at 38. The dealer replaced all of my wheels/tires from a loaner and guess what?!?!? - the car finally drives straight. As an aside, the problem wheels had weights slathered all over them. The new set has very minimal weighting. The continued commentary that some of these cars are handling very poorly simply because of improper tire pressure is a bit off base to those who have experienced significant pulling etc.

You guys need to learn to apply some logic to all of this. Obviously if you vehicle pulls in one direction or the other after setting uniform tire pressure as recommended by the manufacturer, then you have other issues. Next steps would be an alignment and wheel balance.

At this point, dealerships should be providing vehicles that are aligned with wheels that are balanced. They are also (universally to my knowledge) overinflating the tires per the instructions in the door jam. It's not unreasonable for resolving this issue to be anyone's first recommendation.

 

[[ Adam ]]

I do. Mine is the exact same - very very heavy at low speeds. Im in a loaner currently and it's much lighter at low speeds. Did you ever find a fix?

Improperly balanced tires have little to no impact on low speed steering feel.