Americas So how's your Grenadier Really and what could make it better (elevator pitch time)

[Mountain4x4]

The main reason the turning radius is larger than that of a similarly built vehicle (e.g. other solid axle vehicles like the Jeep Wrangler) is the decision to go with king pins as opposed to ball joints in the front end.

While king pin set-ups are generally understood to be stronger than ball joints set-ups

1. They are well-known to have a wider turning radius (all other things being equal)
2. They tend to have more play in the steering
3. They do not articulate as well

Note: the table below is a pretty good summary, though I wouldn't say it is 100% accurate. In particular:

(1) King pin set-ups are strong and durable - no doubt. But there are a lot of heavy duty axles with ball joints that hold up to heavy use with absolutely no problems. Dynatrac, and Carli, and some other manufacturers make ball joints for Dana 60 axles (or the like) that are super strong. A Dana 60 axle with upgraded ball joints from Dynatrac or Carli can provide similar practical strength to a king pin set-up in the same size axle, with a smaller turning circle, potentially less play in the steering, and potentially better axle articulation. But Dana 60s are big and heavy. The Carraro axles are lighter-duty than a Dana 60, and in axles of this size, there are probably significant strength gains from a king pin set-up when compared to a ball joint.

(2) In axles of similar size, a king-pin set-up will have slightly weaker knuckles than those in a ball-joint set-up, since the king pin takes away from some of the mass of the knuckles. In a smaller axle, this could be relevant, but in a beefier axle the knuckles - even with king pins - will be very strong.

View attachment 7840798
Source: https://automotivesimple.com/king-pin-vs-ball-joint/

Give me King Pins or give me Portals, your choice

 

[Mountain4x4]

I will love to see other owner's opinions. I tend to be a "glass-half-empty" guy, so it's too easy for me to fixate on the negative. I love the concept and philosophy behind the Grenadier, but there are many (little) things about it that make me slap my forehead and say "What were they thinking?" I will have to start a list.

Me too. My glass is also also half empty, and it has a crack in it

 

[Bruce]

I have to manually adjust he seat position from the previous driver

I love the manual seat in the Grenadier for this. In my other cars you have to wait for the seat to adjust and I can't even get in because the other drivers are so much shorter. I stand in the rain like an idiot waiting for the motors to do their thing. In the Grenadier I can just throw the lever and boom we're on the road.

 

[AnD3rew]

To begin with, as they are working through them I won’t talk about the software issues and niggly quality things, I am confident these are getting sorted over time. I am also not going to comment on things that are just subjective things that people may or may not like or try to turn the car into something it isn’t.
- side mirrors, not acceptable that I can’t adjust the drivers side mirror enough that I am not filling half the mirror with the side of the car. Thats a safety issue.
- power outlets on dash, most people who use these cars for their intended purpose are going to want to use some kinds of navigation devices etc on the dash, carplay even if it works loses usefulness outside of cellular coverage.
- dual battery system, arguably the INEOS setup works but there is no real reason to go completely the opposite to pretty much every other dual battery setup in the world, it just causes confusion and limits things unnecessarily.
- it is clear that the RHD hump is quite a bit wider than the actual metal intrusion dictates it has to be. If there is some kind of regulatory rule about distance between pedal and rest they are excused but otherwise why would you do that. (Not going to go there about the metal part of it.)

Ok, now I am going to break my initial rules and list some things that aren’t deal breakers they aren’t critical but are just my personal nice to haves.
- the central cubby could have a lot more room inside just by redesigning the housing and making the sides less thick.
- the door pocket size isn’t terrible but they sit too far back and make it hard to access with door closed. Move them forward a bit.
- cupholders in the rear? Simple why not?
- some rake adjustment on the rear seat, doesn’t need to be a lot just 2 positions maybe.
- adaptive cruise, yes I know now moving very much into mall crawler territory but I just like it, so sue me.
- for Australia offer a 7pin flat trailer plug (or at least 7pin round) and the option of an Anderson plug instead of a NATO plug.

 

[AWo]

I love the manual seat in the Grenadier for this. In my other cars you have to wait for the seat to adjust and I can't even get in because the other drivers are so much shorter. I stand in the rain like an idiot waiting for the motors to do their thing. In the Grenadier I can just throw the lever and boom we're on the road.

Never saw that from this point of view.

AWo

 

[Jean Mercier]

... But my local Ineos Service partner has responded extremely positively. ...

I applied for asylum in Scotland right now ... because my dealer ... OK, you understand, I will not respond here otherwise I loose my chances to get asylum :-(

 

[Coullabus]

I applied for asylum in Scotland right now ... because my dealer ... OK, you understand, I will not respond here otherwise I loose my chances to get asylum :-(

Stirling Trailer Centre. Yep, that’s right, a trailer specialist is an Ineos service partner

so when are you moving?!!

 

[DaBull]

To begin with, as they are working through them I won’t talk about the software issues and niggly quality things, I am confident these are getting sorted over time. I am also not going to comment on things that are just subjective things that people may or may not like or try to turn the car into something it isn’t.
- side mirrors, not acceptable that I can’t adjust the drivers side mirror enough that I am not filling half the mirror with the side of the car. Thats a safety issue.
- power outlets on dash, most people who use these cars for their intended purpose are going to want to use some kinds of navigation devices etc on the dash, carplay even if it works loses usefulness outside of cellular coverage.
- dual battery system, arguably the INEOS setup works but there is no real reason to go completely the opposite to pretty much every other dual battery setup in the world, it just causes confusion and limits things unnecessarily.
- it is clear that the RHD hump is quite a bit wider than the actual metal intrusion dictates it has to be. If there is some kind of regulatory rule about distance between pedal and rest they are excused but otherwise why would you do that. (Not going to go there about the metal part of it.)

Ok, now I am going to break my initial rules and list some things that aren’t deal breakers they aren’t critical but are just my personal nice to haves.
- the central cubby could have a lot more room inside just by redesigning the housing and making the sides less thick.
- the door pocket size isn’t terrible but they sit too far back and make it hard to access with door closed. Move them forward a bit.
- cupholders in the rear? Simple why not?
- some rake adjustment on the rear seat, doesn’t need to be a lot just 2 positions maybe.
- adaptive cruise, yes I know now moving very much into mall crawler territory but I just like it, so sue me.
- for Australia offer a 7pin flat trailer plug (or at least 7pin round) and the option of an Anderson plug instead of a NATO plug.

Hi And3rew, In regards to having a bit more rake for the rear seat back, there are now aftermarket brackets available. They are easy to install per the links below and video and move the top of the back seat back 55.20mm or 2.17". Makes the rear seat much more relaxing and longer trips.
Here's some links to the product and an installation video link.
Note: For anyone ordering drawers and such and getting these brackets, keep in mind that the seat back will be further back approximately 1" with drawers 10" high or so. Best to get your brackets, install them and then measure and confirm clearance for anything you might be installing in the rear boot that would be affected by the seat back being further back a bit.

LINK TO BRACKET ON EBAY

Rear Seat Backrest Adjustment Bracket Für Ineos Grenadier 2020-24 | eBay

Fit For Ineos Grenadier. Am 01.12.2023 hat der Verkäufer die folgenden Angaben hinzugefügt Item : 2 Pcs/Set. Product features:Durable,Easy Installation.

www.ebay.com

LINK TO JUST THE INSTALL VIDEO

Rear Seat Backrest Adjustment Bracket Für Ineos Grenadier 2020-24 | eBay

Fit For Ineos Grenadier. Am 01.12.2023 hat der Verkäufer die folgenden Angaben hinzugefügt Item : 2 Pcs/Set. Product features:Durable,Easy Installation.

www.ebay.com

​

 

[AnD3rew]

Hi And3rew, In regards to having a bit more rake for the rear seat back, there are now aftermarket brackets available. They are easy to install per the links below and video and move the top of the back seat back 55.20mm or 2.17". Makes the rear seat much more relaxing and longer trips.
Here's some links to the product and an installation video link.
Note: For anyone ordering drawers and such and getting these brackets, keep in mind that the seat back will be further back approximately 1" with drawers 10" high or so. Best to get your brackets, install them and then measure and confirm clearance for anything you might be installing in the rear boot that would be affected by the seat back being further back a bit.

LINK TO BRACKET ON EBAY

Rear Seat Backrest Adjustment Bracket Für Ineos Grenadier 2020-24 | eBay

Fit For Ineos Grenadier. Am 01.12.2023 hat der Verkäufer die folgenden Angaben hinzugefügt Item : 2 Pcs/Set. Product features:Durable,Easy Installation.

www.ebay.com

LINK TO JUST THE INSTALL VIDEO

Rear Seat Backrest Adjustment Bracket Für Ineos Grenadier 2020-24 | eBay

Fit For Ineos Grenadier. Am 01.12.2023 hat der Verkäufer die folgenden Angaben hinzugefügt Item : 2 Pcs/Set. Product features:Durable,Easy Installation.

www.ebay.com

​

Yes, seen those, good option if you don’t have a cargo barrier, but would be nice to have seen it designed in so it works with the barrier. Personally I won’t have a wagon without a barrier.

 

[MTNDOG]

White-wall tire side out. Hate it. Who has the white side walls showing in this day and time?

I think white letters out is awesome and do so whenever I have the option. Maybe going back to old school roots as this is how my dad rolled with his FJ55 and K10 Blazer, BFGs, white letters out.

 

[Bruce]

Note: For anyone ordering drawers and such and getting these brackets, keep in mind that the seat back will be further back approximately 1" with drawers 10" high or so. Best to get your brackets, install them and then measure and confirm clearance for anything you might be installing in the rear boot that would be affected by the seat back being further back a bit.

I'd rather have the extra inch of drawer. Even an inch of drawer length loses you about 2 cubic feet if it's side by side 8 inch high drawers 16 inches wide.

 

[DaBull]

I'd rather have the extra inch of drawer. Even an inch of drawer length loses you about 2 cubic feet if it's side by side 8 inch high drawers 16 inches wide.

Hi Bruce, You are correct that you would lose a bit of space, however it would only be 0.148 cubic feet. A cubic foot has 1728 square inches, (12 x 12 x 12 = 1728). Losing 1" in drawer length based on 2 drawers that are each 8 inches high and 16 inches wide results in just losing 256 cubic inches or 0.148 cubic feet, (1" x 8" x 16" = 128 cubic inches x 2 drawers = 256 cubic inches. About the size of a 6" cube.
For me, a small sacrifice in storage for a large gain in comfort for my rear passengers.
For others, any sacrifice in storage is not worth it.
DaBull

 

[Bruce]

Hi Bruce, You are correct that you would lose a bit of space, however it would only be 0.148 cubic feet. A cubic foot has 1728 square inches, (12 x 12 x 12 = 1728). Losing 1" in drawer length based on 2 drawers that are each 8 inches high and 16 inches wide results in just losing 256 cubic inches or 0.148 cubic feet, (1" x 8" x 16" = 128 cubic inches x 2 drawers = 256 cubic inches. About the size of a 6" cube.
For me, a small sacrifice in storage for a large gain in comfort for my rear passengers.
For others, any sacrifice in storage is not worth it.
DaBull

I'm not good at the maths

 

[bikesandguitars]

I’m on my third day of ownership with 400 miles on the odometer. My initial order for a Scottish White Fieldmaster was due to arrive in March. My dealer, Red Noland of Colorado Springs, wanted me to take a test drive prior to delivery. I went for my test drive last week and was so impressed, I walked out with a beautiful Queens Red Trialmaster that someone had backed out on ( their huge loss!!!). My wife wants the Fieldmaster coming in March.

I am over the moon happy with the Trial Master. I’ve owned my share of 4x4’s - two Lexus LX‘s, a LandCruiser, two FJ 40’s, a Rubicon Recon, a Gladiator Mojave and a Bronco Wildtrak. I‘m a regular on the Moab trail system. The Grenadier feels far more substantial than anything I’ve owned. The LX’s may be close but they lack the direct from factory off-road chops of the Gren. The Grenadier is solid!!! It oozes quality.

I have only one thing that I’d ask they change - the shifter. I had the same shifter in my 2009 BMW 535 Wagon. I liked it then. I don’t like it for the Grenadier. It’s a little underwhelming and it angles in the wrong direction. The other quirks, clicks and buzzes are all part of the charm. I’m even getting used to the tiny backup camera. However, I am dreading using that shifter on a technical trail.

Certainly, there’s room for improvement with some of the other ergonomics but fit, finish, comfort, noise, performance, value, etc., are all good with me.


.

 

[MTNDOG]

I’m on my third day of ownership with 400 miles on the odometer. My initial order for a Scottish White Fieldmaster was due to arrive in March. My dealer, Red Noland of Colorado Springs, wanted me to take a test drive prior to delivery. I went for my test drive last week and was so impressed, I walked out with a beautiful Queens Red Trialmaster that someone had backed out on ( their huge loss!!!). My wife wants the Fieldmaster coming in March.

I am over the moon happy with the Trial Master. I’ve owned my share of 4x4’s - two Lexus LX‘s, a LandCruiser, two FJ 40’s, a Rubicon Recon, a Gladiator Mojave and a Bronco Wildtrak. I‘m a regular on the Moab trail system. The Grenadier feels far more substantial than anything I’ve owned. The LX’s may be close but they lack the direct from factory off-road chops of the Gren. The Grenadier is solid!!! It oozes quality.

I have only one thing that I’d ask they change - the shifter. I had the same shifter in my 2009 BMW 535 Wagon. I liked it then. I don’t like it for the Grenadier. It’s a little underwhelming and it angles in the wrong direction. The other quirks, clicks and buzzes are all part of the charm. I’m even getting used to the tiny backup camera. However, I am dreading using that shifter on a technical trail.

Certainly, there’s room for improvement with some of the other ergonomics but fit, finish, comfort, noise, performance, value, etc., are all good with me.


.

The Queens Red Unicorn it seems, let's see some pics!

 

[MTNDOG]

I have only one thing that I’d ask they change - the shifter.

I have no talent, but it seems somebody with talent could 3D print a cover that just covers the shifter leaving the functionality in place, but better fits the Ineos design theme.

 

[TCMColorado]

I’m on my third day of ownership with 400 miles on the odometer. My initial order for a Scottish White Fieldmaster was due to arrive in March. My dealer, Red Noland of Colorado Springs, wanted me to take a test drive prior to delivery. I went for my test drive last week and was so impressed, I walked out with a beautiful Queens Red Trialmaster that someone had backed out on ( their huge loss!!!). My wife wants the Fieldmaster coming in March.

I am over the moon happy with the Trial Master. I’ve owned my share of 4x4’s - two Lexus LX‘s, a LandCruiser, two FJ 40’s, a Rubicon Recon, a Gladiator Mojave and a Bronco Wildtrak. I‘m a regular on the Moab trail system. The Grenadier feels far more substantial than anything I’ve owned. The LX’s may be close but they lack the direct from factory off-road chops of the Gren. The Grenadier is solid!!! It oozes quality.

I have only one thing that I’d ask they change - the shifter. I had the same shifter in my 2009 BMW 535 Wagon. I liked it then. I don’t like it for the Grenadier. It’s a little underwhelming and it angles in the wrong direction. The other quirks, clicks and buzzes are all part of the charm. I’m even getting used to the tiny backup camera. However, I am dreading using that shifter on a technical trail.

Certainly, there’s room for improvement with some of the other ergonomics but fit, finish, comfort, noise, performance, value, etc., are all good with me.


.

I was at Red Noland on Friday 1/19 and there was a Queens Red Trialmaster setting in the showroom with a sold sign in the window. I suspect it was yours. The color looked fantastic. Good call going home with that one.

 

[trobex]

I was going to do up a list of good and bad but my back is too stiff to continue!!!

 

[Tazzieman]

I’m on my third day of ownership with 400 miles on the odometer. My initial order for a Scottish White Fieldmaster was due to arrive in March. My dealer, Red Noland of Colorado Springs, wanted me to take a test drive prior to delivery. I went for my test drive last week and was so impressed, I walked out with a beautiful Queens Red Trialmaster that someone had backed out on ( their huge loss!!!). My wife wants the Fieldmaster coming in March.

I am over the moon happy with the Trial Master. I’ve owned my share of 4x4’s - two Lexus LX‘s, a LandCruiser, two FJ 40’s, a Rubicon Recon, a Gladiator Mojave and a Bronco Wildtrak. I‘m a regular on the Moab trail system. The Grenadier feels far more substantial than anything I’ve owned. The LX’s may be close but they lack the direct from factory off-road chops of the Gren. The Grenadier is solid!!! It oozes quality.

I have only one thing that I’d ask they change - the shifter. I had the same shifter in my 2009 BMW 535 Wagon. I liked it then. I don’t like it for the Grenadier. It’s a little underwhelming and it angles in the wrong direction. The other quirks, clicks and buzzes are all part of the charm. I’m even getting used to the tiny backup camera. However, I am dreading using that shifter on a technical trail.

Certainly, there’s room for improvement with some of the other ergonomics but fit, finish, comfort, noise, performance, value, etc., are all good with me.


.

Just watched our Aussie boys tackle Moab. Wondered when we'll see a lifted and tyred Grenadier there?

 

[bikesandguitars]

Yes TCMBoulder, that Trialmaster you saw on Friday is mine. I was in Boulder yesterday with it.