Sick of waiting

[Andrew Kilby]

Never say never. Think of all the things they said could never be done even over the last ten years. I am going for a diesel IG but I feel sure there will be an electric or hydrogen model in the next 5 years.

 

[DaveB]

I agree.

What's your conclusion? Mine is that some people's way of life will no longer be viable.

JCB in the UK have developed a modification to a standard diesel motor to allow it to run on hydrogen. Ineos have invested heavily into hydrogen as discussed elsewhere on this forum. 90% of Australia's electricity comes from coal fired or natural gas power stations. Only fools think electricity is green. I can however see the reason why people don't want internal combustion engines in cities due to emissions and pollution. That's why I would support electric vehicles for city centres particularly and even suburbs in heavily populated cities.

 

[DaveB]

Never say never. Think of all the things they said could never be done even over the last ten years. I am going for a diesel IG but I feel sure there will be an electric or hydrogen model in the next 5 years.

I am pretty sure there will be both. Hate to think how much the electric one will weigh. Sir Jim said the electric one would probably be smaller like an old LR 90 series

 

[Sam]

I also think and hope in the future there'll be electric and hydrogen vehicles, with fossil fuel as a backup mainly for industrial users.

The point though is that each delivery delay (for any car, not just IG), is a nudge closer to perhaps choosing nothing... and waiting to see what the next generation vehicles are.

 

[DaveB]

I also think and hope in the future there'll be electric and hydrogen vehicles, with fossil fuel as a backup mainly for industrial users.

The point though is that each delivery delay (for any car, not just IG), is a nudge closer to perhaps choosing nothing... and waiting to see what the next generation vehicles are.

I tend to agree with your first point but on the second one you couldn't nudge me with a bulldozer, no matter what it is powered by. You are probably younger than me though. I have worked in the electrical, electronics & Instrumentation industry for the last 43 years. I am about to move to the country to live and will be driving in remote areas. There is no way I am going to trust my well being to an electric vehicle. They currently have a design life of 8 years on the battery packs and as every manufacturer has a proprietary system they have you over a barrel.

 

[Sam]

You mu

I tend to agree with your first point but on the second one you couldn't nudge me with a bulldozer, no matter what it is powered by. You are probably younger than me though. I have worked in the electrical, electronics & Instrumentation industry for the last 43 years. I am about to move to the country to live and will be driving in remote areas. There is no way I am going to trust my well being to an electric vehicle. They currently have a design life of 8 years on the battery packs and as every manufacturer has a proprietary system they have you over a barrel.

You may not have a choice though. Thats my point.

 

[Spjnr]

As someone who runs a lorry, a Mercedes sprinter tipper and numerous plant machinery in the UK, I'm very skeptical about the 2030 cut off for petrol and diesel vehicles.

For me to replace my current trucks, there are zero EV alternatives. 7 years doesn't seem like a long time for these vehicles to appear, given the technology doesn't exist yet....

For lorries, the weight of the battery packs needed would massively reduce the carrying capacity if we stick to the current weight system, ie 7.5 tonnes etc. So unless batteries take a massive leap forward in 7 years, how are all these small business going to survive with this hideous regulation?

Time will tell but I think diesel truck sales is 2029 may go through the roof

 

[Tazzieman]

Only fools think electricity is green.

The fools in Tassy actually know their energy is green , and that their state is a world leader!

 

[DaveB]

The fools in Tassy actually know their energy is green , and that their state is a world leader!

My apologies I forgot Tassies wonderful hydro power system.
I seem to recall a lot of greenies who didn't think it was very green at the time.
The HEC was a huge customer of mine when I lived down there so I shouldn't have forgotten them.

 

[DaveB]

As someone who runs a lorry, a Mercedes sprinter tipper and numerous plant machinery in the UK, I'm very skeptical about the 2030 cut off for petrol and diesel vehicles.

For me to replace my current trucks, there are zero EV alternatives. 7 years doesn't seem like a long time for these vehicles to appear, given the technology doesn't exist yet....

For lorries, the weight of the battery packs needed would massively reduce the carrying capacity if we stick to the current weight system, ie 7.5 tonnes etc. So unless batteries take a massive leap forward in 7 years, how are all these small business going to survive with this hideous regulation?

Time will tell but I think diesel truck sales is 2029 may go through the roof

Yes I agree
This is an interesting video from Harry Metcalf

 

[Tazzieman]

My apologies I forgot Tassies wonderful hydro power system.
I seem to recall a lot of greenies who didn't think it was very green at the time.
The HEC was a huge customer of mine when I lived down there so I shouldn't have forgotten them.

However , the mining trucks and other rural & plant equip in Tas run on diesel...
So that's something to keep the greenies fuelled up for now ;>)

 

[stickshifter]

Hydrogen. Not only would a shift to hydrogen require building out new infrastructure, but it does not seem like the right fuel source for cars. Based on efficiency calculations, there are two types of hydrogen: Blue Hydrogen and Green Hydrogen.

Blue Hydrogen: the power for the electrolysis process to separate hydrogen from water is derived from fossil fuels. In the U.S., about 10 million metric tons of hydrogen are produced from oil and gas annually, and much more than that globally. However, only 1% of global hydrogen production is currently using carbon capture and storage to reduce emissions. So this form of producing hydrogen is not a "green" solution to energy needs. The use-case for blue hydrogen in cars is to relocate the site of emissions from congested urban areas to some other place - but you still have emissions. Oil companies promote blue hydrogen with carbon capture for obvious reasons (the continued use of fossil fuels), but the reality is that we are a long, long way from the widespread use of carbon capture.

Green Hydrogen: uses renewable energy to separate hydrogen from water. Only a tiny fraction of hydrogen being produced now is done so using renewable energy. You might argue, however, that this could change in the future. Sure, but even if most hydrogen we use for fuel ends up getting produced using renewable energy, there is still a very significant problem: green hydrogen production requires a lot of electricity to power the electrolysis process – electricity that could otherwise be used to directly power homes, transportation and industry. It is more efficient to use the electricity from renewables directly, rather than to use it to make hydrogen. The best use-case for green hydrogen is for powering something like a hydrogen plane (in development now). Planes have high emissions, and will probably never fly on electric batteries. Using green energy to make hydrogen involves a lot of loss of energy, but might be worth the inefficiencies in exchange for green flight. According to the report below, you get about 80% efficiency from using renewable energy to make electricity for use in an electric car; you only get about 30% efficiency from using renewable energy to make hydrogen for use in a car.

I've attached a short article here, and in that article there is a link to a longer paper - for anyone who might be interested.

 

[emax]

Curious about what will happen now. ;-)

 

[stickshifter]

Here is a graphic from a report titled Reclaiming Hydrogen for a Renewable Future:

This is not my area of expertise, but I am interested in learning about it. I welcome any evidence-based discussion.

 

[dynosoar]

From October to may as of today.

 

[dynosoar]

Oops. Misread that.
The build date has disappeared. Matt was my order date

 

[MileHigh]

Some rather elitist attitudes here about people’s ‘lifestyles’ going away…

Right now I drive an Escalade? Is my lifestyle evil? It’s 10 years old and I have less than 40,000 miles on it. My neighbor is on his third Tesla in the same time and drives that thing silly.

Full EV implementation is like autonomous driving cars, a few years away for the past 20 years…. I’m not against EVs, frankly they are more EOTWAWKI than a gas or even diesel vehicle if you have enough solar panels And spare batteries. The torque profile and 4WD options are interesting. I wish there were general aviation airplanes with EV systems that made sense. But for cars batteries and solar cells wear out and are of questionable recyclability- never minding production. What I don’t like is mandates- govt ideas SO GOOD that the have to be mandated..

When there is a cry to bring back nuclear energy, that’s when you know people are serious.

Right now I’m looking for a 23 model, and also thinking that I’ll take one from 29-30‘ if those are the last ones.

 

[stickshifter]

Some rather elitist attitudes here about people’s ‘lifestyles’ going away…

Right now I drive an Escalade? Is my lifestyle evil? It’s 10 years old and I have less than 40,000 miles on it. My neighbor is on his third Tesla in the same time and drives that thing silly.

Full EV implementation is like autonomous driving cars, a few years away for the past 20 years…. I’m not against EVs, frankly they are more EOTWAWKI than a gas or even diesel vehicle if you have enough solar panels And spare batteries. The torque profile and 4WD options are interesting. I wish there were general aviation airplanes with EV systems that made sense. But for cars batteries and solar cells wear out and are of questionable recyclability- never minding production. What I don’t like is mandates- govt ideas SO GOOD that the have to be mandated..

When there is a cry to bring back nuclear energy, that’s when you know people are serious.

Right now I’m looking for a 23 model, and also thinking that I’ll take one from 29-30‘ if those are the last ones.

Since you like government mandates as much as I do, what do you think about this (from Associated Press):

Congress mandates new car technology to stop drunken driving

Congress has created a new requirement for automakers: Find a high-tech way to keep drunken people from driving cars.

apnews.com

 

[cheswick]

Since you like government mandates as much as I do, what do you think about this (from Associated Press):

Congress mandates new car technology to stop drunken driving

Congress has created a new requirement for automakers: Find a high-tech way to keep drunken people from driving cars.

apnews.com

Install one in Paul Pelosi’s car first, until then they can shove it up their backside.

 

[bemax]

Since you like government mandates as much as I do, what do you think about this (from Associated Press):

Congress mandates new car technology to stop drunken driving

Congress has created a new requirement for automakers: Find a high-tech way to keep drunken people from driving cars.

apnews.com

That hasn´t to be searched for. The technique exists since decades:

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